PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)
- Thread starter mpg1
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A very interesting business model for older titles that get another release window years after due to these mid-gen upgrades.
Honestly, that's quite great for developers, I hope it continues to drive more sales for them, Especially for titles that are released during the launch window where they had significantly less time to work with the hardware and had to release under stricter timing.
Uhm, then you werent following the discussions going on here. Or the hints that were being dropped about dynamic resolutions.I don't think that should be priority. It took 6 months for anybody to even notice that game is not running at 1080p.
Nothing, I'm afraid. Last I heard was Sony getting rid of all its display panel R&D and manufacturing facilities because its TV division was bleeding copiously. That was some years ago now, maybe things have turned around for them by now, I really don't know...
Technewsreader
Newcomer
I still think its kinda weird to not have more info about the console at this point.
They said they wanted to focus on the games at E3.Well thats fine but MS focused on the games too during their press conference yet showed a teaser. And this thing is more than a year away. They also talked about it in interviews and thats why We 'officially' know more about scorpio than we do about Neo(Leaks are nothing official ever and Sony doesn't comment on rumours and leaks) This makes the leaks more authentic but that doesn't mean its official.
Idk man.It feels sort of cheap to me now that we know its real. Its about time they tell us more and show us something.
They said they wanted to focus on the games at E3.Well thats fine but MS focused on the games too during their press conference yet showed a teaser. And this thing is more than a year away. They also talked about it in interviews and thats why We 'officially' know more about scorpio than we do about Neo(Leaks are nothing official ever and Sony doesn't comment on rumours and leaks) This makes the leaks more authentic but that doesn't mean its official.
Idk man.It feels sort of cheap to me now that we know its real. Its about time they tell us more and show us something.
Well MS are playing catch-up and trying to stop the gushing wound whereas Sony are sitting nicely on top with nothing to worry about 'today'.
Also, we could be looking at 2 completely different mind-sets. With Scorpio it's about 'almost next gen' whereas with Neo it's about a console to add 'if you want' so a kind of soft launch almost...but MS are going for a 'big bang'. Sony will wait for PS5 for that level of hype. All IMHO of course
Technewsreader
Newcomer
According to the documents the point of Neo is to get the most out of 1080P gaming.People should forget about 4K other than maybe 4K playable movies which would still be a cool feature. Also more power will help PSVR.
What documents?! The ones I read were all about 4k rendering and sub-4k upscaling...
Technewsreader
Newcomer
the documents we are all talking about... the leaks. Did you read 'Improved visual effects' in relation to 4K anywhere?. I did read something like that in relation to 1080P also something about more solid framerates. Sorry don't know it by heart.
What I was trying to say is: This is probably not the console you'll need a 4K screen to get the most out of it. Don't get fooled by 4K buzzwords or some magical upscale talk of any company.
I really don't see the point in a new thing that just gives 'improved framerates'. Unless by improved we mean 30 to 60fps, which is unlikely on every game.
It was not all about 4K. There was a clear section for potential benefits that will HDTV users get.
If PS4 users can get visual bump like PC games get when they move from Med-High [console spec] to ultra high, that will be more than fine for me even if the framerate stays the same. That would make the purchase of the Neo worth it [IMO].
There is also chance that upcoming Sony 1st party games will also invest more resources into actually adding more graphic assets into Neo games, pushing the visuals of those games beyond the simple "changing sliders" state.
Consumer products need to be easily marketable. 4k is easy to get across to a wide variety of consumers. 60fps is somewhat easy. Improved aniso and shadowmap resolution is a marketing faliure.
More particles is also not gonna happen at this day and age. Game production has matured and vfx artists want to say their end-solution was "cannon"
Art teams aren't building higher res assets nor do they have memory for them.
Its all gonna be about sub4k upscaled with "checker-board rendering" and whatnot.
More particles is also not gonna happen at this day and age. Game production has matured and vfx artists want to say their end-solution was "cannon"
Art teams aren't building higher res assets nor do they have memory for them.
Its all gonna be about sub4k upscaled with "checker-board rendering" and whatnot.
WTF is checker board rendering??
upnorthsox
Veteran
As it should be.
I think focusing on 4k is a smart strategy from a marketing point of view, and also easy on devs. MS is gonna brag about 4k NATIVE when scorpio comes out, which I also think, in their position, is a smart thing to do.
So, yeah, I'd say I agree with both companies strategies. They seem sensible.
So, yeah, I'd say I agree with both companies strategies. They seem sensible.
My guess is its something along the lines of sebbbi's MSAA trick, render at full 4k, but skip every few pixels, and reconstruct later.
Though at the same time, pretty pointless. Average consumers were happy to watch SD content on their HDTVs and think it high def. Majority probably think sticking a NES into their 4k TV makes it super HD! Those who really value crisp 4k, who buy UHD into of watching low bitrate 4k streams, might see that as a significant selling point, but to everyone else I think it's the platform value that matters. I don't think any 16 era console sold on a resolution number, nor PS1 era, nor PS2 era. PS3 sold fine rendering sub-HD. I don't think PS4 is outselling XB1 now simply because of higher average game resolutions, and I don't think future consoles will have a competitive advantage on the size of a rendering res number either.
I think it more important to get the price and content and services right. I reckon Scorpio marketed as 1080p/1440p in higher framerate and visual quality would sell more than Scorpio marketed as 4k as the core gaming audience will be more savvy to the benefits to them.
So likewise Sony. Not having a 4k machine won't matter if the on-screen results are good enough, and the price low enough, that the market is big enough to gain mindshare.
I do acknowledge the possibility though that simply having 'world's only 4k console' could get enough 'click through' attention.
I think there's 2 distinct things to take into account.
1. Marketing.
2. Implementation
It is easier to market native 4k.
It's harder to market "using checker board" rendering.
You use previous gens as examples, yet forget that during those gens it was things like bits (which you mention), that was the marketing buzz words and check boxes that indicated power. The check boxes have changed, that's all. If neo plays same games as ps4, why would anyone buy it, with "it just looks better", well how much better?
Trying to market saying higher visual fidelity, isn't very easy. Yet everyone knows what 4k is.
64bit, blast processing, emotion engine....
4k is even easier to get across to people.
This doesn't mean that all games have to be 4k, talking marketing and the benefits or lack of saying 4k
You also said average consumers was ok watching sd on their hdtv. Well that was precisely because of marketing saying hdtv is better!
edit: ps just saying that there is big benefit to saying 4k, even for Sony. The initial rumours called it ps4k, because it was easy to get across
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The numbers game against Neo can be powerful when using arbitrary all-or-nothing thresholds. That will be the most effective PR line. Otherwise the comparison becomes the same as XB1 vs PS4, which there are multiple visual comparisons. Gamers would see it's not a big difference. With the distance required to see a full 4K resolution, this is going to be an even smaller difference.
Speaking of thresholds, Spencer is repeating PS4 is not powerful enough for VR (which is hilarious in itself, considering all the positive reviews) and implies Neo won't be either because VR needs some arbitrary 6TF. Nobody can compare an existing product against something not available for another year. There won't be any visual comparisons for quite a while, so nobody will see how 4.2TF compares to 6TF either with 4K or with VR. Whether the difference will be noticeable is irrelevant until both products are out, prices announced, and headset support available for scorpio.
There's nothing Sony can do against this, other than making sure gamers actually try PSVR on both PS4 and Neo. Showing 4K HDR will be difficult with youtube clips, they'll need to have 4K HDR kiosks with Neo at bestbuy and gamestop, etc...
Ref:
http://www.roadtovr.com/xbox-head-phil-spencer-sends-mixed-messages-on-project-scorpio-and-vr/
Speaking of thresholds, Spencer is repeating PS4 is not powerful enough for VR (which is hilarious in itself, considering all the positive reviews) and implies Neo won't be either because VR needs some arbitrary 6TF. Nobody can compare an existing product against something not available for another year. There won't be any visual comparisons for quite a while, so nobody will see how 4.2TF compares to 6TF either with 4K or with VR. Whether the difference will be noticeable is irrelevant until both products are out, prices announced, and headset support available for scorpio.
There's nothing Sony can do against this, other than making sure gamers actually try PSVR on both PS4 and Neo. Showing 4K HDR will be difficult with youtube clips, they'll need to have 4K HDR kiosks with Neo at bestbuy and gamestop, etc...
Ref:
http://www.roadtovr.com/xbox-head-phil-spencer-sends-mixed-messages-on-project-scorpio-and-vr/
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