PS4 Pro Official Specifications (Codename NEO)

[3dilettante]

"Example: SanDisk Extreme SSD, which supports SATA 6Gb/s interface and when connected to SATA 6Gb/s port, can reach up to550/520MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively. However, when the drive is connected to SATA 3 Gb/s port, it can reach up to 285/275MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively."

I understand that SSDs can operate on an SATA 2 or 3 interface.
What I was questioning was why the article was somehow saying the Pro can now support SSDs since it has SATA 3, when the base PS4 can do the same--just with the prospect that a lot of SSDs can become erratic in their response time and performance due to the console not really taking them into account.

 

[scf]

SSD on ps4 doesn't give much speed boost. Probably because the bandwidth is capped in the OS.

 

[Gradthrawn]

SSD on ps4 doesn't give much speed boost. Probably because the bandwidth is capped in the OS.

Do we have confirmation that its not capped in the OS on the Pro? So far all I've currently seen is discussion of the supported interface and that interface's theoretical max transfer speed.

 

[scf]

I think we don't

 

[3dilettante]

SSD on ps4 doesn't give much speed boost. Probably because the bandwidth is capped in the OS.

Some games have more scattered file layouts and did see some benefit, while other games did more to arrange data to emphasize linear accesses where HDDs can still provide enough data. It was probably worse with the PS3's more limited RAM where less could be buffered ahead of time.

However, the lack of TRIM could lead to poorer latency or hitching over time despite the SSD's ability to provide generally higher bandwidth and responsiveness when new. One of the workarounds was to do a backup, take the SSD out, plug it into a PC, reformat or use a TRIM utility, and then restore from the backup.

 

[scf]

Of course SSD would help with cases where HDD shows its high seek times. But in general you don't get much benefit.

 

[MrFox]

Wouldn't TRIM be almost useless in this application?

Modern SSDs have a good amount of over-provisioning. Consoles are not write-heavy, and there are no situation where it would need continuous writes at full speed in a way that it could deplete the over-provisioning before they can be reclaimed by the wear-leveling and garbage collector of the controller during idling time. The I/O pattern here will have a huge amount of idling, big bursts of max-speed reads loading a game/level, and only a very slow trickle of writes when installing games (limited by either the internet connection or the bluray drive).

 

[3dilettante]

Wouldn't TRIM be almost useless in this application?

Modern SSDs have a good amount of over-provisioning. Consoles are not write-heavy, and there are no situation where it would need continuous writes at full speed in a way that it could deplete the over-provisioning before they can be reclaimed by the wear-leveling and garbage collector of the controller during idling time. The I/O pattern here will have a huge amount of idling, big bursts of max-speed reads loading a game/level, and only a very slow trickle of writes when installing games (limited by either the internet connection or the bluray drive).

Install a decent number of multi-GB games, download hundreds of MBs or GBs of patches, save out a decent amount of footage, then cut or remove items.
What can be problematic is that the value-oriented SSDs skimp on non-disruptive GC, and it's not clear since most sites have stopped paying attention to non-TRIM performance in the PC space as to how well the swath of modern drives of varying quality handle it.

For some, the issue may have been compounded by problems like Samsung's TLC read performance degradation over time, which something like a full drive erase and restore would reset as well.

 

[djskribbles]

I'm not a tech guy so this may be a dumb question, but is it possible that the PS4 Pro will run current and old games slightly better simply due to the fact that the Pro uses a newer AMD GPU architecture? Because AFAIK, in standard mode the PS4 will simply match the clocks etc., of the standard PS4 for compatibility, right?

 

[iroboto]

I'm not a tech guy so this may be a dumb question, but is it possible that the PS4 Pro will run current and old games slightly better simply due to the fact that the Pro uses a newer AMD GPU architecture? Because AFAIK, in standard mode the PS4 will simply match the clocks etc., of the standard PS4 for compatibility, right?

I don't think we have enough information about this one, but possibly yes. It's not like they took 2 PS4 GPUs and pasted them side by side or something, though the articles from lesser technical publications appears to be writing it that way.

There is technology built into 4Pro that is patented in its methods to reduce its performance to very close/exactly that of PS4. Not sure how far that goes though.

 

[hesido]

Highlight from Digital Foundry article on the PS4 PRO.

• New ID buffer for tracking triangles and objects, opening the door to advanced spatial and temporal anti-aliasing

I wonder what you guys think about the new possibilities with this new feature. This may even lead to a a sexy tie - in with the https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/realtime-frame-interpolation-upscaling-30fps-to-60fps.49577/

 

[iroboto]

I'm not a tech guy so this may be a dumb question, but is it possible that the PS4 Pro will run current and old games slightly better simply due to the fact that the Pro uses a newer AMD GPU architecture? Because AFAIK, in standard mode the PS4 will simply match the clocks etc., of the standard PS4 for compatibility, right?

Last sort of bit, one thing that perhaps maybe I've missed and someone else can fill in is whether it's actually confirmed to be using Polaris, or if Sony just improved their existing custom PS4 Architecture with some features from other architectures and some
of their own design.

If the latter, it's probably dead set identical. If the former your post makes most sense to me.

 

[mrcorbo]

It could also suggest that the Xbox One platform has a better isolation layer between software and hardware, that means games and applications are less likely to break when the underlying hardware changes.

It's the Pro's inability to run at a higher clock rather than it's inability to use new hardware feature on old games (understandable) that's interesting IMO.

Shortly before launch MS did a last minute bump of both CPU and GPU clocks, and I'm not aware of that causing any issues. Then with the S they bumped the GPU clock again ... and everything just works.

With the Pro there is obviously a hardware configuration that allows the Pro to run PS4 games perfectly. Why does this configuration negate the clock speed enhancements that the hardware would appear to be completely capable of?

If Scorpio runs unmodified Xbox One games without the hardware going into some kind of emulation mode, that, to me, will be a compelling case for the effectiveness of the Xbox One's hardware abstraction.

 

[iroboto]

If Scorpio runs unmodified Xbox One games without the hardware going into some kind of emulation mode, that, to me, will be a compelling case for the effectiveness of the Xbox One's hardware abstraction.

But at the same time i hope they are modified I would like to see all their 720p become 1080 for folks still running 1080p screens. And possibly up to 4K as well. That would be an incredible win for MS to prove their commitment to moving game libraries forward.

 

[mpg1]

Maybe for PS5 Sony could just go 16 core jaguar/16GB GDDR5/72CU GPU and disable half the hardware accordingly for BC

 

[Jay]

Last sort of bit, one thing that perhaps maybe I've missed and someone else can fill in is whether it's actually confirmed to be using Polaris, or if Sony just improved their existing custom PS4 Architecture with some features from other architectures and some
of their own design.

If the latter, it's probably dead set identical. If the former your post makes most sense to me.

Yes confirmed.
Polaris, few Vega bits, with a sprinkling of some sony custom updates.

But at the same time i hope they are modified I would like to see all their 720p become 1080 for folks still running 1080p screens. And possibly up to 4K as well. That would be an incredible win for MS to prove their commitment to moving game libraries forward.

If it's running dynamic res then that may be possible.
Or if the game was development with Scorpio in mind.
Otherwise res is set, and most could hope for is either a patch or smoother framerates I suspect, with less pop in, etc.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So 4Pro actually has 64 ROPS? The description from Cerny is two GPUs mirrored, which is more than just the CUs. There'd be two ACE clusters (16 ACEs in total), 64 ROPS, etc.

 

[temesgen]

Maybe for PS5 Sony could just go 16 core jaguar/16GB GDDR5/72CU GPU and disable half the hardware accordingly for BC

Cerny's comments at face value kinda suggest BC may not be a certainty for PS5.... That would be a shame IMO...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If not, it'll be for lack of interest on Sony's part. They've managed BC for most of their old consoles on most of their new consoles through emulation, and emulating PS4 on PS5 should be the easiest emulation they've ever faced, unless someone invents a whole new processing paradigm between now and then.

 

[Jay]

If not, it'll be for lack of interest on Sony's part. They've managed BC for most of their old consoles on most of their new consoles through emulation, and emulating PS4 on PS5 should be the easiest emulation they've ever faced, unless someone invents a whole new processing paradigm between now and then.

Especially as they could emulate the base ps4 if they really wanted to and be able to run all the ps4/pro games. Although I expect them to provide bc to 4pro levels.