PS3 sales

[RobertR1]

Try levels 8 and 9 of Lost planet with 30 people, 10 mechs, and 30 or so AKrid of small to outrageous size along with exploding platforms, fire, smoke, plasma, missles, hundreds of cinders and debris flying at the same with no hitches, or slowdown.

on topic.. my local bestbuy has 32 60 GB PS3s in stock which they say have been there for at least three days. The clerk said price and lack of high quality games are slowing sales to a crawl. Maybe i'll pick mine up when Motorstorm and Heavenly sword drop...

Good point. I'm actually just as shocked that admist all this talk of number of things going on at once on screen, Lost Planet is not even mentioned. Anymore chaos than what was presented in the scenarios you described would overwhelm the senses to the point where it's not even fun to play. LP did a good job balancing that though.

Having owned a PS3 for a bit now, I find it very hard to recommend it to friends. Even if I did recommend it, they wouldn't go for the price tag and it's not due to their disposable incomes. It's due to their pricing threshold for a gaming console.

 

[inefficient]

Having owned a PS3 for a bit now, I find it very hard to recommend it to friends. Even if I did recommend it, they wouldn't go for the price tag and it's not due to their disposable incomes. It's due to their pricing threshold for a gaming console.

I have bought 5 games now. Resistance, Ridge Racer7, Fight Night3, Tekken5: DR, Lemmings.

When I invite non-gamer friends over (age 25-35) the biggest hits are Lemmings and Tekken: DR. Tekken because it's an easy pick up and play arcade game where you can take turns beating each other up. And quite surprisingly Lemmings is way more fun to play with a group of people all trying to solve the puzzles together instead of playing alone.

I got a bunch of non-gamers to play Lemmings for something like 2.5 hours straight once. And they all really like the idea that you can just login to the online store and buy it for under $10 and download it on the spot.

It's funny, the reaction I get for non-gamers about Resistance is always something like "it looks so depressing" or "this looks like a very sad world" or "this makes me dizzy". No one has ever said wow those graphics look really cool. FN3 just seems to bore people because the fights are so long and drawn out.

Of course there is the Bluray stuff they are interested in too. But the number of good titles aren't really there yet - especially in Japan. But by the end of 07 there should be more than enough BD movie titles to make everyone happy.

 

[blakjedi]

Good point. I'm actually just as shocked that admist all this talk of number of things going on at once on screen, Lost Planet is not even mentioned. Anymore chaos than what was presented in the scenarios you described would overwhelm the senses to the point where it's not even fun to play. LP did a good job balancing that though.

Having owned a PS3 for a bit now, I find it very hard to recommend it to friends. Even if I did recommend it, they wouldn't go for the price tag and it's not due to their disposable incomes. It's due to their pricing threshold for a gaming console.

Lost planet isnt perfect by any means... eg the loss of T Eng at the beginning of each mission, the lack of persistent destruction, the odd use of T-eng even in in environments which clearly arent cold (volcano dome anyone?) and the lack of the ability to repair mechs... but it is so chaotic its almost amazing.... IMHO I think this game is a better analogue for comaparison to resistance on the PS3 than Gears. The scale, destruction, theme, layout and playing field design seem more comparable. The dependence on mechs is the only differentiating factor here.

The guy in the was so ready to sell me a PS3... I found a statement that he made as being odd... He said PS3 and 360 were selling about the same. But they had had the 30 or so PS3s in stock for several days... so I wonder... either no one except wii is selling, or PS3 is selling better than stated...

March 07 it looks like for me!

 

[Jesus2006]

I just don't see Motorstorm as proof of this. And I really scoff at the idea at talking Motorstorm up as a game that cannot even be realized on the 360 when it is either already clearly demonstrating the same general technologies or they are already announced. Where is the proof to back up such statements? Opinions are not facts.

That's why i use the phrase 'imo'. The problem is on PS3 the tech is there. On the 360 something "similar" might be announced, but there is no "proof" whatsoever, as you wrote.

I think we shouldn't behave as if eveyrthing could be done on the other side because it never will be since it's just not the same tech.

 

[blakjedi]

That's why i use the phrase 'imo'. The problem is on PS3 the tech is there. On the 360 something "similar" might be announced, but there is no "proof" whatsoever, as you wrote.

I think we shouldn't behave as if eveyrthing could be done on the other side because it never will be since it's just not the same tech.

What every one is trying to say to you is that its not the tech thats the issue. And...the tech upon which you base your supposition on, according to people who know, is not sufficient for you to notice a difference between the machine you say has "the tech" and the other you think doesnt have "the tech." In the end, design choices dictate more of what you see on screen than the "tech."

 

[Acert93]

That's why i use the phrase 'imo'. The problem is on PS3 the tech is there. On the 360 something "similar" might be announced, but there is no "proof" whatsoever, as you wrote.

Here is the problem with your opinion:

Your arguement is as substantial as any poster here picking a feature in a 360 game, noting it isn't available in any current PS3 game, and concluding that it such games cannot be realized on the PS3.

All in their opinion... but it adds nothing of substance to the discussion as it is not verifiable.

On the 360 something "similar" might be announced, but there is no "proof" whatsoever, as you wrote.

No proof?

So on the one hand I can point out a number of games that are doing deformable terrain, parallax mapping, complex car deformation and destruction, rich particle systems, and so forth to back up my opinion as a survey of known facts, but it doesn't match up to your opinion that is based on... Motorstorm itself not being on the 360, hence "proof" that the 360 cannot realize a game like Motorstorm.

I think we shouldn't behave as if eveyrthing could be done on the other side because it never will be since it's just not the same tech.

That isn't what you originally said.

...and insufficient performance is waving back at you.

And the point one was making was that Motorstorm could not be realized on the 360. With no proof, and plenty of facts showing that, at this time, the techniques Motorstorm is demonstrating are all more than possible on the 360 -- even in a racing game pulling all these techniques together.

But maybe a simpler approach is needed for me to illustrate the problem with your arguement. Think about this:

"The PS3 cannot realize Gears of War".

 

[StefanS]

Guys,

Let's leave the Motorstorm vs Lost Planet discussion out of here. If please keep your arguments abstract instead of listing specific implementations in specific games.

 

[one]

exactly

some of the assertions in some of the threads about what the 360 will and won't be capable of compared to PS3 are ludicrous considering they are being presented as facts when they are, as you said, opinions.

I for one thank you for continuing to question those opinions with facts, Joshua.

Thanks for stating the obvious. We are discussing the opinion "Cell/RSX/Blu-ray are not worth delaying PS3 for" in the PS3 sales thread.

 

[Mintmaster]

You could look at a PS3 game that implements features X, Y, Z then point out that Xbox360 game a does X, game b did Y, and game c will do Z.

In general 360 should be able to match graphical features with the PS3. It's just the potential for multiple combinations of those features in frame at the same time on the 360 will be limited compared to the PS3.

I seriously doubt it, especially to a degree that it can be noticed and identified.

Motorstorm is still a very impressive game for what it does do. 16 cars or whatever all bumping an crashing into each other, models deforming, pieces flying off, cars flying into obstacles and exploding and still maintaining 30 fps is good stuff.

While visually outstanding, this is really not very impressive at all in terms of what the hardware is accomplishing. Even Carmageddon from over a decade ago did this sort of stuff.

Once again, it's all about software and art. It's a matter of writing code that handles so many parts that can fly off and when they do so, getting artists to assemble cars this way, coordinating everything in a software company, etc. You'll never get 1,000 free bodies in Motorstorm, but a modern day CPU (CELL/Xenos/Athlon/whatever) could handle 10x, 100x, maybe 1000x as many.

 

[Mintmaster]

This is a signature worth line, thanks!

You're very welcome. I just wish it didn't fall on deaf ears so often.


As for getting back on topic, PS3 sales, Microsoft's big achievement was being so comparable to Sony with both a year headstart and a lower cost.

Is Blu-Ray useful for games and sales? Absolutely. Is Cell faster than Xenon? When you spend enough time, sure. Is a standard HDD useful? Without a doubt. The big question is whether these things will give Sony enough sales to make up for the higher price and delayed launch, and IMHO the answer is a resounding "hell no". Even if Blu-Ray eventually becomes the dominant HD format, we don't know if including it in PS3 was vital to success, nor do we know whether the income Sony gets from Blu-Ray will compensate for reduced share of the console market.

If PS3 launched alongside XB360 at the same price without BR or standard HDD, Microsoft would get hammered. There was just no messing with the Playstation brand at the time.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, I've used to talk about this too - it would've been soooo easy to simply destroy the X360 and repeat the success of the previous two generations. But Sony went greedy (or panicked?) and decided to leverage the Playstation brand's success to force BR and Cell on the market and recoup their investment at the same time.

As our old saying goes, you can't ride two horses with one a**. PS3 tried to ride three.

 

[cyberheater]

PS3 sales in Japan have not just chilled but FROZEN. The problem of PS3's not selling in their native motherland has got so bad that retailers are cutting their prices by as much as 20% in a bid to move the systems. As soon as PS3 gets some good games, expect things to heat up!

http://www.akibablog.net/archives/2007/01/ps3_39980_070120.html

 

[Mintmaster]

As our old saying goes, you can't ride two horses with one a**. PS3 tried to ride three.

Now that's signature worthy!

 

[Mintmaster]

PS3 sales in Japan have not just chilled but FROZEN. The problem of PS3's not selling in their native motherland has got so bad that retailers are cutting their prices by as much as 20% in a bid to move the systems. As soon as PS3 gets some good games, expect things to heat up!

Wow, that's shocking. As I doubt even this will let XB360 compete with PS3 (in Japan), I assume Wii is absolutely cleaning up there. The next MC numbers should show an even larger disparity than there is today.

 

[dobwal]

You're very welcome. I just wish it didn't fall on deaf ears so often.


As for getting back on topic, PS3 sales, Microsoft's big achievement was being so comparable to Sony with both a year headstart and a lower cost.

Is Blu-Ray useful for games and sales? Absolutely. Is Cell faster than Xenon? When you spend enough time, sure. Is a standard HDD useful? Without a doubt. The big question is whether these things will give Sony enough sales to make up for the higher price and delayed launch, and IMHO the answer is a resounding "hell no". Even if Blu-Ray eventually becomes the dominant HD format, we don't know if including it in PS3 was vital to success, nor do we know whether the income Sony gets from Blu-Ray will compensate for reduced share of the console market.

If PS3 launched alongside XB360 at the same price without BR or standard HDD, Microsoft would get hammered. There was just no messing with the Playstation brand at the time.

If N64 launched alongside PS1 at the same price without being cartridge based and with developer friendlier licensing fees, Sony would of got hammered. There was just no messing with the Nintendo brand at the time.

It seems when a hardware manufacturer loses favor with the market. It is always due to some mistake/mistakes that in hindsight sticks/stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[one]

The big question is whether these things will give Sony enough sales to make up for the higher price and delayed launch, and IMHO the answer is a resounding "hell no". Even if Blu-Ray eventually becomes the dominant HD format, we don't know if including it in PS3 was vital to success, nor do we know whether the income Sony gets from Blu-Ray will compensate for reduced share of the console market.

Yeah, I've used to talk about this too - it would've been soooo easy to simply destroy the X360 and repeat the success of the previous two generations. But Sony went greedy (or panicked?) and decided to leverage the Playstation brand's success to force BR and Cell on the market and recoup their investment at the same time.

Do you guys actually think of making money or just increasing the transient market share in the so-called "HD" market while bleeding money like nothing? SCE has every reason to continue the support for the PS2 hardware which is more profitable than PS3 for a while. If they had released a new console with DVD in 2005 it would have destroyed the PS2 hardware sales while having absolutely nothing to differentiate itself from Xbox 360 and still with the software development difficulty with Cell and only a few launch titles, plus no PS network. If you think it sells just because of the brand name, that's unreal. And I bet you would keep calling bullshit on E3 2005 video in that case

 

[scooby_dooby]

If they had released a new console with DVD in 2005 it would have destroyed the PS2 hardware sales while having absolutely nothing to differentiate itself from Xbox 360

Don't exagerate, it wouldn't 'destroy' anything, PS3 is out now and PS2 continues to sell like crazy. Also, any negative impact would have been worth it to ensure market domination of the PS3, so that they could repeat the cycle 7 years down the road.

Sony did not need to differentiate from MS, it simply needed to do what it always had done, provide a diverse game library with cutting edge GFX, at an affordable price.

They got the GFX right, but screwed up on the other 2 points:
1. Games: By launching late they comprimised their game library. Allowing MS to become the lead platform for many 3rd party developers. Had they launched alongside MS, developers would've been forced to 'bet' on the PS3 success, consumers would have as well. PS3 would currently have a larger install base than 360, and they would've retained more franchises.

2. Price: They removed themselves from their traditional position as an affordable system and have priced themselves far above the threshold for the majority of gamers.

I totally commend Sony for what they've done, they have created a truly kick ass game machine, I'm a big proponent of built in HDD's, and a built in BR player is great, they've opened up the machine to generic memory and peripherals, all awesome stuff and impressive as hell.

But from a market standpoint it was a big mistake. They will lose marketshare because of it.

 

[one]

PS3 sales in Japan have not just chilled but FROZEN. The problem of PS3's not selling in their native motherland has got so bad that retailers are cutting their prices by as much as 20% in a bid to move the systems. As soon as PS3 gets some good games, expect things to heat up!
http://www.akibablog.net/archives/2007/01/ps3_39980_070120.html

That line is actually very misleading, it's the news of only the 20GB model sold at 39,800 yen at some discount shops (down from 49,800 yen). 20GB models are not favored by customers. 60GB models don't receive such treatment (unfortunately for those who want to buy it cheap).

 

[one]

Don't exagerate, it wouldn't 'destroy' anything, PS3 is out now and PS2 continues to sell like crazy.

So you think they could sell the PS3 with DVD with $599/$499? If the price is nearer to the PS2 you know what happens. They wouldn't be able to manufacture enough units anyway.

 

[scooby_dooby]

So you think they could sell the PS3 with DVD with $599/$499? If the price is nearer to the PS2 you know what happens.

PS3 with DVD at $399, I really don't think it would impact PS2 sales at $129 all that much. I mean, you have to ask 'who is actually buying all these PS2's in the year 2006?' It can't be the same crowd that is willing to spend $400 on a launch console, those people would have owned PS2's for years...