PS3 sales

[expletive]

I was afraid you might say that but it's probably rubbish. If I can buy a single (as in one) sample from a competitor for 85$, what will I pay per piece in full-scale in-house mass production? Not 200$, no sir.
And the cost of that element is pretty damn relevant because, as entertaining as your "Blu-ray is a disease" reverse logic is, without a big cost attached to the blue laser diode the common argument that the PS3 could have a much more attractive price only if Blu-ray were out of the equation, would explode and reform into a cloud of candy.

Are you sure you're replying to the right poster? I don't recall making a case that blu-ray is a disease, nor do i recall saying that my feelings were thats its a $200 BOM difference.

If you read my posts you'll see that I said the consumer math probably figures a $200 price difference(based on the pricing and marketing of MS and Sony), which is to say the mainstream perception. I recognize your desire to make the point that BR is a much less expensive upgrade than $200, and that its value-add item for ANY consumer. However, I think using my posts as your counterpoint won't provide the contrast you need to get it across effectively.

 

[Rolf N]

Are you sure you're replying to the right poster? I don't recall making a case that blu-ray is a disease, nor do i recall saying that my feelings were thats its a $200 BOM difference.

Not so sure anymore. I think Shifty Geezer meant Blu-ray when he talked about the "medium" but you weren't so specific in your reply; you talked about more general "potential". I'm sorry.

If you read my posts you'll see that I said the consumer math probably figures a $200 price difference, which is to say the mainstream perception. I recognize your desire to make the point that BR is a much less expensive upgrade than $200, and that its value-add item for ANY consumer. However, I think using my posts as your counterpoint won't provide the contrast you need to get it across effectively.

Yeah well hmm. So you do take the positition that Blu-ray is only useful for some, the movie crowd I suppose.

 

[expletive]

Not so sure anymore. I think Shifty Geezer meant Blu-ray when he talked about the "medium" but you weren't so specific in your reply; you talked about more general "potential". I'm sorry.

Whew!

Yeah well hmm. So you do take the positition that Blu-ray is only useful for some, the movie crowd I suppose.

At this very moment, I think the only group that could come to the foregone conclusion that BR is and will be useful and worth a premium price are those intending to (or more importantly, really wanting to) watch movies in the BR format.

The board has talked endlessly about the necessity, or added possibilities, that the BR format provides in the gaming space, and imo the jury is still out on this one. Clearly we're already at the point, with games like Blue Dragon, that the PS3 will suffer from less disc switching for these massive RPGs. However, I don't know if consumers view this as such a chore that they will pay to avoid it.

I think we'll have to wait and see how it plays out but I think right now, only the hardcore are willing to pay a premium for the possibility that BR may provide some gaming benefits down the line. Strangely, it doesn't seem as if Sony is spending too much of their time touting it as such. Do you get that same sense?

 

[Phil]

Ginko,

Sony talked a big game of offering a true next generation game console. They have yet to demonstrate how the PS3 is the superior game console. Nothing on the forefront seems like it is any better than the cheaper 360. In other words, there's no reason to believe at this point that it is worth the extra price over the competition, thus you are paying for potential. I never said anything about it being bad...I just find it silly to invest in one right now.

No doubt they did - it's called marketing and surely played a crucial role in keeping the market hyped for a product that I believe wasn't going to launch any sooner than it did. I would have been very surprised if Sony would have launched back in Spring 2006. The rest of your post is all very subjective and doesn't leave much to be replied unfortunately: Being an early-adopter rarely makes sense.

I guess it also depends what your reasons for supporting a console is: is it the technical potential Sony is hyping or like in my case, also the software and franchises that will surely remain exclusive to the PlayStation brandname? In my case, it's the latter - the rest, including BR, HD is a potential I'm looking forward to as an extra benefit.





Mintmaster,

But this is a pretty serious marketing mistake on Sony's part. There's a reason everyone in the console business (except, apparently, Sony this particular generation) tries to keep the basic package low in price and gouge the consumer on accessories. It works. You want to create a low entry barrier to your system, and then when the buyer is hooked, he/she will buy more stuff - both games and accessories.

If this is a serious mistake on Sony's part or not, is something that Sony will find out once this generation is finished. IMO, when you consider the stakes in BluRay succeeding as the successor to DVDs and PlayStation 3 continues the success of its predecessor, I'm sure they'll be more than happy. If anything, I see the open platform as being a goodie for customers since they [Sony] knew there was no way of making the PS3 any cheaper for consumers in the first year simply because BR is a very costly (but strategic important) feature.

As a potential (and informed) buyer, I'm happy to note where I'll be spending less. When I look back at my 30 games for PS2, the hardware price itself ends up being an insignificant factor. After 6 years of gaming with a PS3 (and hopefully lots of games), so will the original pricetag of $600.

I seriously doubt PS3 would take away from PS2 sales when it's four times the price. Why you're comparing PS2 sales to XBox360 is beyond me.

I wasn't comparing, I was pointing out why it did not make business sense to launch PS3 any earlier than it did. Just because it was in Microsofts interest to end the life of the Xbox early, doesn't make it to be in Sony's as well. While the PS3 might not directly influence the PS2's sales, I think the reason for launching the PS3 later is more because of production issues. With CELL, EE/GS as well as PSP's chips being fabbed inhouse, I'm sure the production rate of PS2 parts has fallen significantly since PS3 entered mass production as of mid 2006. If they would have prepared for a 2005 launch, they would have started much earlier with mass production and that surely would have had an effect on PS2 production as well as publishers still supporting the dominant console of last generation.

Okay, I'll agree here, but I think the early sales are pretty crucial, especially when you launch a year later than your primary competition. MS will be able to hit the $199 price point way before Sony. Maybe 1.5 years sooner.

Agreed. Though I fail to see the significance of that $199 price point. I'd argue that a more attractive product at $299 doesn't necessarely sell worse than one at $199. Dreamcast launched at $199 and couldn't compete with a more expensive PS2. Same goes for Xbox which (at least in Europe) usually went for less than a PS2. I agree that strategic price drops are an important factor, but it's not the only one.

If I am to predict the future, I think the PS3's cheap (mass market) price will be at no less than $299. Even if Xbox360 is at the $199 at that point, does not change the fact that with the more expensive console, you are getting a next generation movie player (BR). If by that time BluRay ends up being the dominant medium, that could well make a difference, even in the eyes of the average consumer. If BR doesn't have that impact and ends up failing against HD-DVD, then Sony might be in a little trouble. Also, take note of the PSP which also launched at a price that no one thought could be successful. Yet it is selling and has made quite a remarkable userbase of itsself, even against more aggressively priced competitors. True, the markets aren't exactly the same - but then, is the target audience of the PS3 and Xbox360 really the same?

How this all pans out, I guess we'll see in the following 1 to 2 years. It's sure going to be interesting, that's for sure.

 

[groper]

PS3 available on BestBuy.com ... still

BestBuy.com and Best Buy stores, following a well publicized New Year's Eve sale, still have PlayStation 3 units available. We've received documentation from sources using Best Buy's Retek Store System (RSS) showing megalopolis' like Los Angeles are sold out, but states like Missouri, Illinois, Texas, Michigan, Minnesota are stocked. This is all a moot point because BestBuy.com has units for purchase. If gamers want a unit, it's available.

One of our sources says, "It would appear that nobody is really buying them. As of today, my store only had somewhere around 12 units left, but other stores were in the 30s ... While some people are blaming it on the fact that nobody wants a PS3, I like to imagine it's because the parents who would be buying them already jumped for a Xbox 360 or managed to get a Wii. After all, if I just spent $600 on little Susan for Christmas, I would not want to drop another $600 minimum for her. No kid is worth that much."

Although it could be the sign that PS3 supply is starting to exceed demand, this Best Buy situation could merely be an anomaly. Amazon.com can't keep units in stock, but we don't have data on how many units Amazon.com received. It's certainly an indicator of things to come when a major U.S. retailer has PS3 units available online and in stores that aren't being sold less than two months after launch.

GameStop pulls out creative stops to move PS3s

 

[Deleted member 7537]

If there are just 200 left in the states, i think those are really good numbers for sony.

 

[Crossbar]

PS3 available on BestBuy.com ... still

BestBuy are selling them online as well here.

When I checked last night they were all sold out, but they got them in stock again today. Seems like Sony production rate is really picking up.

I wonder if Sony is still flying them in or if they have started to rely on boat shipments.

 

[inefficient]

There are a pile of 360's in that photo. Is it supposed to be a joke?

And someone is going to get fired (or worse) over that other photo. I hope it was worth it for his 15mins of internet fame.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

why would anyone get fired?

 

[22psi]

There are a pile of 360's in that photo. Is it supposed to be a joke?

And someone is going to get fired (or worse) over that other photo. I hope it was worth it for his 15mins of internet fame.

I think the 9.99 sign is for the bin right behind the 360s.

 

[Tap In]

If I am to predict the future, I think the PS3's cheap (mass market) price will be at no less than $299. Even if Xbox360 is at the $199 at that point, does not change the fact that with the more expensive console, you are getting a next generation movie player (BR). If by that time BluRay ends up being the dominant medium, that could well make a difference, even in the eyes of the average consumer.

good point Phil and IF Sony can get their price down to within $100 of the cheapest 360 system on the market, then I agree, BluRay will make a difference.

However, I don't know if that will be possible seeing as that is the sole purpose of the Core system. I think it can continue to be more than $100 (currently $200) less then the cheapest PS3 price. At the point we are talking the future here, casuals are the ones we are taking about and price is paramount for those 60-70 million consumers.

 

[inefficient]

why would anyone get fired?

Are you kidding? It is a serious offense to take data from your place of work release it to the public. He will get fired if he is lucky. They could press criminal charges against him.

And the fact that it has "Sony" and "Playstation" in that manifest and shows them in a potentially bad light Sony could take legal action against BestBuy for allowing this to happen.

 

[Tap In]

interesting that the manifest shows almost exclusively $599 (60gig) systems.

 

[one]

I thought something like NPD got out and opened this thread to see no news
It seems JoyStiq editors believed it because that "pick one up today!" poster is a bit too amateurish even for a fake.

 

[Tap In]

Are you kidding? It is a serious offense to take data from your place of work release it to the public. He will get fired if he is lucky. They could press criminal charges against him.

And the fact that it has "Sony" and "Playstation" in that manifest and shows them in a potentially bad light Sony could take legal action against BestBuy for allowing this to happen.

when the 360 was in short supply last year there were all kinds of stock info docs being floated in order for people to find a system.

Although you're right I don't remember seeing one so detailed such as an actual manifest.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If there are just 200 left in the states, i think those are really good numbers for sony.

Are those all BestBuys in the USA, or just those in the MO + IL states? If there's onlt 181 in BestBuys, including restocking, that's no issue. If it's a sign of stock on say Dec 31st, for a small area, from which can be extrapolated a lot of units for other stores and retail chains, it's a different matter. Though TBH I can't see how these tiddly figures can be construed as bad. You'd expect some to be in stock if Sony keep resupplying the chain.

It's the old 'no units available = hopeless supply and terrible launch; units available = n demand and terrible launch' argument. Whatever happens, someone somewhere spins it as a negative just like with XB360s worldwide launch.

Ho hum.

 

[patsu]

BestBuy are selling them online as well here.

When I checked last night they were all sold out, but they got them in stock again today.

Wow, makes me wonder how many PS3s Sony churns out a month now. Looks like the European March launch is getting more solid. Can't wait (actually more for the games also released in the same timeframe).

 

[mrcorbo]

Wow, makes me wonder how many PS3s Sony churns out a month now. Looks like the European March launch is getting more solid. Can't wait (actually more for the games also released in the same timeframe).

Yeah, I fully expected Sony to have to do a modest EU launch, but they have definately ramped up production better than what I expected. They seem to have done a 180 from the 360 launch (sorry couldn't resist ) and had miserable initial availability and better resupply as opposed to better (and worldwide) initial availability and miserable resupply.

 

[Sinistar]

Are those all BestBuys in the USA, or just those in the MO + IL states? .

No, there are over 1,100 Bestbuy stores in the U.S. and Canada.

 

[Fox5]

Sony is back to being a profitable company outside of the Playstation brand and has done well performing in it's traditional markets again. With the standard equipment necessary in ps3 adding up to a sizable BOM and already losing $200+ per console at it's current retail rate and needing to regain marketshare and facing a competitior which is not only cheaper today but will be cheaper tomorrow as well and offers near indistinguishable gaming experiences I think they are in a VERY tough spot and will be draining Sony inc for a long time to come unless they do something about it. Game sales and downloads can only do so much, especially when their attach rate is horrible. Add to this the market situation in Japan with most there are gaming on much less expensive Nintendo platforms and I think the whole thing adds up to "A PERFECT STORM" as Acert put it

I'd say Sony is the perfect company for the Playstation brand. It may not be profitable at this moment, but it was Sony's big cashcow for the last decade. Even if Playstation 3 fails outright, I doubt they'd abandon the brand without giving at least one more shot at being profitable. Heck, maybe they'll even buy Nintendo. The next Playstation system is much more likely to be conservatively built, I could see them dramatically ceding the power race to MS. The Playstation is a bit far out of Sony's usual high priced line of products (maybe why the push to sell the PS3 at a higher price and use higher priced components all around?), but I think it fits their overall corporate image well.

Besides that, I could see Apple doing a console, but both Nintendo and Microsoft have already copied their image for their own consoles. Additionally, Apple likes to skew towards high priced products even more than Sony. What does $250 get you from Apple right now? A portable music player with less processing power than the average cell phone, a small low res screen, and a 30GB harddrive. 30GB 1.8" harddrives retail for around $70 and would easily be the most expensive component of the system, I could see MRSP being over twice the cost of production. I don't think Apple would be willing to cut prices enough to compete, nor would they be too happy about depending entirely on 3rd parties for software.

Samsung would be good for a cheap console (though they do make some nice and expensive products as well), but I don't think they've got the image necessary to compete outside of Korea. Samsung isn't really known for stylish products anyway.