If demand and the market would have allowed it, I have no doubt that Sony would have even charged such prices on the 1995 launched PlaySatation. If you don't like what the PS3 is coming extra with, don't buy one...
PS3 sales
- Thread starter Laa-Yosh
- Start date
If demand and the market would have allowed it, I have no doubt that Sony would have even charged such prices on the 1995 launched PlaySatation. If you don't like what the PS3 is coming extra with, don't buy one...
scooby_dooby
Legend
And what percentage of UK PS2 owners do you think bought it at that price in the first 10 months?
20% at best? Probably more in the range of 10-15% I would imagine.
I wish people would stop saying that the PS3 is cheap for the UK because the PS2 launch price was $299. The fact is, Sony had to drop the price by 33% within 10 months after launch. Hardly a compelling argument for UK not being price sensitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS2
Ahh yes, my bad, SSX bundled with it! I got it just before the MSRP went down since it was in very early June.
I´m sure that you find many diehard sega fans that was dead certain that the Dreamcast was real competition
The PS3 as a pure gaming rig with the current games at the current price is not impressive. For someone who wants a Blu-Ray player it´s a fantastic offer
The 360 leaves me cold, no games got me excited at all so it could be 100$ for all i care (which got me an XBOX,Forza and PGR2).
Dreamcast dropped to $100 after being on the market for one year; I'd say it died on its own or Sega wouldn't have slashed prices so fast. IIRC, the price cut came before the ps2 even launched. I think it dropped to $150 within a few months, they had a rebate program going over the summer that effectively made it $100, after summer it had an official price drop to $100, and I believe within 6 months of the ps2's launch, prices were down to $50 a unit as sega was bailing out of the market. Even if Dreamcast was insanely cheap to produce, such a frequent and fast price drops are not a sign of a healthy system.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
PS2 launchpice (Belgium) = 500 euro
Word. It's hard for people outside Europe to understand how happy we are with the dollar -> euro conversion. There's still a price difference, but it never was that small.
Yeah and now I pay 2 euro's for a beer instead of 2 gulden. God im happy with the euro... Besides that you are forgetting that sony screwed europe with the ps2 because there wasnt any reason at all to launch at double the USA price in Europe. And you are still pay about 30% more for a ps3 in europa than in the states, the price only looks cheaper but we are still getting ripped of by whoever is causing the 30% price difference and the euro didnt do anything to help that.
Please don't forget inflation when making such brash comparisons. What cost $100 in '00 would cost $112 now (for '95 it would be $124)! It doesn't seem a lot until you make that $500 and $560! (although this doesn't matter much because wages tend to out-pace inflation in all but government jobs).
Did you quote me by accident? You seem to have changed who you're quoting.What do you guys think about this?
CES - LG combo HDDVD/BR drive and Time Warner combo media coming up
I guess it makes the whole "PS3 with Bluray" issue questionable to an extent...
CES - LG combo HDDVD/BR drive and Time Warner combo media coming up
I guess it makes the whole "PS3 with Bluray" issue questionable to an extent...
The European price includes tax, I don't think the US price does (although you are able to get things in the states at 0% if you order from another state I think
). Also, here we enjoy much better consumer protection, for example two year warranty on all electronics equipment. Compare that to the paltry three months warranty that customers in the US get, although MS recently extended this to one year.Depending on the price and quality of the LG it may be a practical solution for some. It doesn't take away from the 'trojan' horse aspect that BR in PS3 offers. I don't see LG's player being reasonably priced to offer a general consumer much (I'd be very surprised if it wasn't $1k or more, which doesn't really change things much), and LG isn't exactly known for being top quality, so who knows how the playback/reliability would be (although it may end up a real nice player).
I don't see how Time Warner's solution is going to be practical for consumers though, unless they decide not to take advantage of what marketing departments will no doubt claim as an increased value -- I don't know anyone who would pay more for one of those discs (it has no real benefit for the consumer -- only the stores, really, and that may not even be true initially... might add even more consumer confusion). It's kind of stupid -- if I have a BR player, why would I care about having an HD-DVD version? likewise for the other way. Flip discs are far from optimal too -- one sided discs please!
Barring LG being low priced (which would only extend the war), I don't see either of these doing much. The real interesting stuff at CES will be title announcements (big titles with dates), new lower cost players and studio support changes.
Personally I think it was inevitable that some of the BDA's vast CE would seek to gain some kind of traction in any dual-format market that could appear. LG-Hitachi by themselves are pretty much a nothing since both are "inferior" brands in the high-end market, if Samsung and Pioneer jump on board then this starts to seriously matter and I wouldn't bet against those two going there and going there very soon.
Fundamentally it is absolutely horrific for the future of HD optical-disc media being any kind of strong platform in the future since this allows HD-DVD to survive in some form for a while more. Warner's move is also total crazyness since any kind of situation that doesn't see one format die wil lead to lack of HD adoption amongst the mainstream.
I don't think it'll have that much of an effect on PS3's sales as a Blu-Ray player since very few will buy it just for it's Blu-Ray capability. Sony and the BDA just need PS3 to sell through, the sheer numbers should be telling in the end even if attach rates are not favourable.
Inflation, does not apply to advanced technology like this.
Infact, inflation is only really a good measure of basic items that are needed by "everybody", food, clothing that sort of things.
Electronics have never been influenced by inflation in a significant matter, the technology advancements outpace it by a huge margin.
If you dont belive here is a simple example for you:
If electronics like computers were driven by inflation, the price of an average computer would rise. It does not, everyday technology gets cheaper, and we figure out new ways to produce computer parts cheaper. Inflation, is the last thing you want to bring as an argument in this thread.
If inflation had anything to say about console's, then the consoles would get their MRSP raised every year.
The way I see it...
The Total HD disc format is more of an interesting tech thing, I actually don't think it can survive for long and gain too much ground. However it shows the frustration of the movie studios about the current situation quite well.
The format war is still totally undecided. The lack of PS3 supplies is holding BR back too, and if it turns out to be overpriced for the not-so-enthusiast market, it'll deminish its effect even more. HDDVD hasn't picked up yet either, but it's not that far behind if we don't assume that every PS3 sold is going to be used as a BR player in the near future.
Don't forget what happened to DVD+ and DVD-. In the end, every single drive and burner ended up supporting both, it became a mass market comodity, prices went down, and yet we still have both kinds of discs on store shelves.
It is quite likely that BR/HD-DVD can end up like this. If every player will include support for both, then customers will be less worried about choosing the wrong format for their collection, or their player. Studios won't have to release in both formats, and will maybe even benefit from making exclusive deals with one side.
Now, on the other hand, the official reason and most likely a major true reason for PS3's delay and supply problems, and its high price (!) is the included BR drive. If the format war ends up as a tie, then the entire decision and effort to include it in the console will be questionable IMHO.
We all know that Sony has tried to use its leading position in the console market to sort of force down a nextgen media format on customers' throats, and this bit of news seems to suggest that they may very well fail in this. Although I'm still wondering if the dual format players are a result of their poor execution, or was it something inevitable.
Oh, and rest assured, other manufacturers will follow, but for the mass market success, high end players wouldn't really matter anyway.
The Total HD disc format is more of an interesting tech thing, I actually don't think it can survive for long and gain too much ground. However it shows the frustration of the movie studios about the current situation quite well.
The format war is still totally undecided. The lack of PS3 supplies is holding BR back too, and if it turns out to be overpriced for the not-so-enthusiast market, it'll deminish its effect even more. HDDVD hasn't picked up yet either, but it's not that far behind if we don't assume that every PS3 sold is going to be used as a BR player in the near future.
Don't forget what happened to DVD+ and DVD-. In the end, every single drive and burner ended up supporting both, it became a mass market comodity, prices went down, and yet we still have both kinds of discs on store shelves.
It is quite likely that BR/HD-DVD can end up like this. If every player will include support for both, then customers will be less worried about choosing the wrong format for their collection, or their player. Studios won't have to release in both formats, and will maybe even benefit from making exclusive deals with one side.
Now, on the other hand, the official reason and most likely a major true reason for PS3's delay and supply problems, and its high price (!) is the included BR drive. If the format war ends up as a tie, then the entire decision and effort to include it in the console will be questionable IMHO.
We all know that Sony has tried to use its leading position in the console market to sort of force down a nextgen media format on customers' throats, and this bit of news seems to suggest that they may very well fail in this. Although I'm still wondering if the dual format players are a result of their poor execution, or was it something inevitable.
Oh, and rest assured, other manufacturers will follow, but for the mass market success, high end players wouldn't really matter anyway.
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Yeah, just look at 21 inch CRT prices. Back then in the 386-486 age we were happy to get a 15 inch monitor here, and last year I've sold my 3-year old used Sony for the price of a lowend video card, and 19 inch TFTs are pretty much a commodity with quality 20" widescreen panels spreading fast too. How many of you are using 20/24" Dells, for example?
How many of you are using 20/24" Dells, for example?
Me!
I generally agree with your points and on the dual-format business I have always surmised it being inevitable that such players would arise because large consortiums like the BDA can’t keep everyone in line and satisfied. Furthermore the incentive to break and enjoy a piece of a new pie by yourself, even if for a limited time, is great for a lot of those “smaller†firms not so heavily invested as Blu-Ray's major CE trio and Toshiba.
I still have doubts whether as a movie format having a dual standard will lead to any kind of success. I think it will generally confuse the mainstream - any thought of a format war puts people off. The DVD recordable issue was never involving home video so I believe there maybe key differences there, especially in the way it was covered.
It will be an interesting CES and an interesting year!
Don't really have a point other than to rant a bit on why the price of the PS3 might look very high for many people. There is little doubt in my mind that the PS3 offers a lot, especially compared to what the PS2 offered. It is leagues above the PS2 and most would agree it has a great value, that does not make it inexpensive though...
How so?
That drive is likely to be expensive (we'll have to see how it's designed too, it could be a kludge) and not a factor. And no way Sony is going to promote HD-DVD by giving PS3 the ability to play HD-DVD.
The combo media is ridiculous, double-sided, which is expensive and cumbersome to use. How many DVD-18 movies do you see around?
Can we put the "Sony is forcing Blu-Ray down people's throats" garbage to rest?
That is MS propaganda.
Sony has ALWAYS pushed advanced storage formats for consoles, beginning with CD-ROM, then DVD-ROM and now Blu-Ray. Before Sony consoles, these media had not been used for games.
You know in the early '90s, before the web hit, MS was notorious for getting itself placed in as many publications as possible, far more than its competitors. That success was attributed to a PR firm in Portland, Waggener Edstrom.
In the web age, looks like they have no peer for viral marketing and astroturfing. I'm not accusing anyone here of working director or indirectly for them. But looks like some of their memes have been internalized.
That is MS propaganda.
Sony has ALWAYS pushed advanced storage formats for consoles, beginning with CD-ROM, then DVD-ROM and now Blu-Ray. Before Sony consoles, these media had not been used for games.
You know in the early '90s, before the web hit, MS was notorious for getting itself placed in as many publications as possible, far more than its competitors. That success was attributed to a PR firm in Portland, Waggener Edstrom.
In the web age, looks like they have no peer for viral marketing and astroturfing. I'm not accusing anyone here of working director or indirectly for them. But looks like some of their memes have been internalized.
Sony was far from the first to use CDROMs in consoles, SEGA had it in their consoles more than 3 years before Sony did..
There was little doubt that, CDs was the future, i wouldnt say that Sony pushed any of the formats (except bluray), they just followed the natural steps of technological evolution. While sony was the first console to use DVD's it was also looked on as a natural step of evolution, DVD was needed, we were filling up the CDROMs like there was no tomorrow, it was natural that we would use it in our nextgen consoles (next gen at that time).
Bluray however, is a format Sony are pushing.
quest55720
Regular
The 3do and phillips interactive cd-i say hi plus the turbo graphic,genesis and jaguar all had cd rom attachments well before the ps1.
When a system costs 100s more and the only reason is blue ray support that is being shoved down gamers throats. If the PS3 was priced the same as the 360 then it would not of been shoved down our throats.
