[PS3] Killzone 2

[Billy Idol]

All in all, I think KZ2 MP is extremely balanced.

But why are a lot of abilities deactivated by the users (at least, most of the time)...for instance: assault class, grenade and rocket Launcher for the soldier. If the game is extremely balanced, why do the gamers feel that they have to adjust the balance by removing abilities? In fact it seems that GG could have saved the time and cost to design the assault class...that is why I suggest a point system which is not focused on killing but on all different things and different abilities, which would automatically relativize the Assault class.
Also, I played a lot of matches with unequal amount of people in the different fractions. Naturally the fraction with the most players overrun the other team...

I'm also not about the point system that you are proposing. If you can gain points by letting people use your spawn points or feeding from your ammo boxes, what's stopping them from throwing spawn points at their own base or abusing the ammo boxes to gain points without targeting the main objective? I somehow like the idea that not everything gives points, but that the classes are used as a way to improve ones position on the opposing team which should be enough of a benefit.

Come on, of course a smart guy aka 'gamedesigner' is needed to tweak and balance this stuff. I basically proposed to refine the point system with the emphasize to increase the feeling of reward while playing KZ2 MP :smile:

If a spawn point results in many deaths, it's not necessarely because it was placed in a bad spot, but maybe it just has been overrun by the opposing team in the mean time?

It maybe not your fault, but I represent the position that the Tactician is responsible for his spawn point (you know: responsibility goes hand in hand with power/force...I refer you to 'Spiderman' and 'Star Wars' )

For what it's worth - the team work among strangers in KZ2 is very impressive, with or without coordination.

I experienced that it really depends, and can drastically differ from game to game...but basically you are right, it often works surprisingly good.



Just a question to you Phil, it seems that you played a lot KZ2 MP...what would you change for KZ3 MP, or are you completely satisfied with KZ2 MP (I only ask about gameplay related stuff, of course it would be great to have dedicated servers ...)

 

[Phil]

But why are a lot of abilities deactivated by the users (at least, most of the time)...for instance: assault class, grenade and rocket Launcher for the soldier. If the game is extremely balanced, why do the gamers feel that they have to adjust the balance by removing abilities? In fact it seems that GG could have saved the time and cost to design the assault class...that is why I suggest a point system which is not focused on killing but on all different things and different abilities, which would automatically relativize the Assault class.

To be honest, the Assault class was dumbed down in one of the updates making them go down a lot quicker. I guess the reason why a lot of people turn off the Assault class is to make the game more enjoyable. I don't mind if there are Assaults in the game as long as the rocket-launchers don't get overused. When there are two teams of similar size and one team only plays as assault class, they might do well in the body count missions, but I doubt they'd have a chance in securing the rest of the mission objectives (not enough ammo). At least from my experience.

Also, I played a lot of matches with unequal amount of people in the different fractions. Naturally the fraction with the most players overrun the other team...

Yeah, that's true - and that has gotten worse since you can join friends, since you can join a team that's already has a majority by joining a friend in that team. On the other hand, a 16 player game will only allow a max of 8 players in each team. Of course you can still have a 8 vs 2 game going in that game if some of the others leave, but that's a problem you can't really solve since there isn't any match-making at all....

Come on, of course a smart guy aka 'gamedesigner' is needed to tweak and balance this stuff. I basically proposed to refine the point system with the emphasize to increase the feeling of reward while playing KZ2 MP :smile:

Yeah, I know - I just wanted to mention a few flaws I see when going that route, that's all. Sometimes, I think the best solution at times is simplicity. If more points are awarded, I think it may cause other problems like the ones I mentioned. Maybe you could give "personal points" that would make one level-up quicker that wouldn't count towards the match result... then again, you already get that by fullfilling mission objectives and leveling-up already happens quicker than in any other game. At least the unlocking of classes. The 2nd abilities still have to be unlocked by using the classes first ability.

It maybe not your fault, but I represent the position that the Tactician is responsible for his spawn point (you know: responsibility goes hand in hand with power/force...I refer you to 'Spiderman' and 'Star Wars' )

I know what you mean, but as I said - a good tactician knows where to set his spawn points and if they are inline with the mission objectives, team members will use them. The award there isn't to simply have other team-members spawn from your points, but to fullfill the mission objective which is the greater goal beyond just using your abilities.

Of course, strategic placed spawn points are always in danger to be overrun by the enemy which is an integral part of the game and its strategic element.

And if your spawn point is essential to winning the mission objective, it's in everyones interest to keep the enemy away from it.

I experienced that it really depends, and can drastically differ from game to game...but basically you are right, it often works surprisingly good.

I think it works as great as it does, because the game is built around these mission objectives. If you had it like other FPS where you would either chose to play a "body count" or a "search & destroy" game, you would probably have way more body-count games. Because you can have all 5 different mission objectives in the same game though, a lot more people tend to play it and form a strategic sense in what is needed to win.

Just a question to you Phil, it seems that you played a lot KZ2 MP...what would you change for KZ3 MP, or are you completely satisfied with KZ2 MP (I only ask about gameplay related stuff, of course it would be great to have dedicated servers ...)

To be honest, I wouldn't change much with its core gameplay. I like the way it moves and plays and how the mission-objectives are set up. I also generally like the weapons and how much damage they do. What I would add is definately some better party-system that would make it easier for just friends to play together and find games they can join, rather than to have them join "the same game" and hope all will fit in.

I think its biggest strength though, is that you can effectively start playing as a beginner and you are at no disadvantage with the weapons. I've been playing a lot of KZ2 and I still always use the standard rifle which I think is most effective and is at no disadvantage to the other weapons you first have to unlock.

 

[the ignoramus]

Hmm, 'Gaf is gunna get me to play through the campaign once again, I want to see how it holds up now that I've played almost all of the other big shooters of the year.
I played Corinth River a couple days ago and I still found the enemy AI to be what really made the game fun to play.

 

[patsu]

Funny you said this, I was going to revisit KZ2 SP and U2 MP this weekend.

 

[nightshade]

lol same here

 

[AlNom]

Been checking out the game recently... Cool post-processing, but it felt very... empty. *shrug*

Anyone else feel like a foot shorter than other people? Maybe it's the FOV... very very narrow.

 

[Arwin]

The FOV is a common complaint, yeah. Got used to it quick though. Feeling empty, well, maybe, but I'm not sure compared to what ... I don't know many games that are filled with wildlife and civilians while playing, but then I don't play that many fps's, there may be some.

What helps is a 32 player online game though, even the biggest maps don't feel empty then (at least not unless you really really want them to on the really big maps). For me the game's atmosphere really comes into its own in multi-player in that respect, though in don't know how far in you are - from chapter 5 (or was it six?) onwards, it gets better still.

Been checking out the game recently... Cool post-processing, but it felt very... empty. *shrug*

Anyone else feel like a foot shorter than other people? Maybe it's the FOV... very very narrow.

 

[Nesh]

Anyone else feel like a foot shorter than other people? Maybe it's the FOV... very very narrow.

No I think you are right about that. The camera is placed much lower than necessary. Thats one of the things I have noticed too and I wonder why they went with that. It feels awkward as if you are a midget and everyone else is normal.

 

[AlNom]

glad to know that I'm not alone there. Every time I walk up to Rico...

 

[patsu]

Yeah, the camera seems to be fixed to the shoulder (gun).

As for emptiness, I think it's because there's no civilian. But you do get intense, large scale fight and a busy MP. The persistent smoke and blowing sand give Helghast its special look too.

 

[Nesh]

I think Killzone 2 may feel empty because it has too many repeated assets. I find too many similar or identical assets being repeated in many stages and in many areas withing each stage. The environment design a very "boxy" and it is as if the paths are designed strictly to directions east, west, north and south. Like a cross. At least thats the impression I get

Yeah, the camera seems to be fixed to the shoulder (gun).

I dont think it is just that. The camera is is still very low positioned even if you look through the gun's scope. And the gun's scope when aiming should be placed on eye level. Not shoulder level. Unless Sev is a mutant and has eyes on his shoulder.

 

[patsu]

The outdoor levels are not that boxy though.

As for camera should be at the eye level, I agree. I'm just commenting that the camera seems to be fixed at the shoulder level for some reason.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Been checking out the game recently... Cool post-processing, but it felt very... empty. *shrug*

Anyone else feel like a foot shorter than other people? Maybe it's the FOV... very very narrow.

"In Killzone 2, you play a midget on a rampage."

http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/02/killzone-2-and-the-five-foot-s.php


Ha ha ha, I had to post it. You really do have a low view. Some people speculate it's because of that crouch run military guys do. It does look weird when you stand beside a guy that is standing straight. I think it has more to do with balancing the environment, your player and animations. All of the cover is low, so you can hit enemies over top. I think they make the cover low so you won't tower above it. You'll notice if you hold duck you'll barely change your height relative to the ground. Not really an issue, but kind of an oddity if you stand to close to other NPCs.

The FOV is something I wasn't happy with, especially in MP.

 

[djskribbles]

I think that was posted before. What I heard others say, is that the camera is more from the gun position rather than the player's (Sev's) eyes.

 

[patsu]

All of the cover is low, so you can hit enemies over top. I think they make the cover low so you won't tower above it.

I remember when you hide behind a low cover, the enemies can still shoot at you. Had to hide behind a full-height cover to avoid fire.

You'll notice if you hold duck you'll barely change your height relative to the ground.

Perhaps the objective is to reduce large movement as Rico moves and aims. The animations are pretty elaborate and organic. The field of vision is smaller than usual. I wonder if it will cause motion sickness if they base the camera on the actual character movement.

 

[patsu]

Because of the Best Graphics thread, I made it a point to replay U2 and KZ2. Started U2 a week ago. It is indeed as awesome as I remembered it. The competitive and co-op games are superb and very entertaining. I lost some and won some.

I fired up KZ2 last night with my wife, after sending the kid to bed. I think this is the first time she saw it. I didn't play KZ2 at home because of all the F words in the script. The game actually looks quite a bit better than I remembered. ^_^ While showing her around the game, I found myself stuttered a little because I was distracted by the graphics. All the time I kept thinking, "I don't remember it looks this good".

My wife commented that it looks better than U2, even Chapter 16. But she was referring to the pre-rendered cutscene at that point. ^_^

I tried very hard but lost all MP shoot outs. Only managed to kill some because of a few lucky shots. So it's very discouraging despite all the great looking maps.

I think to increase the appeal of KZ2, Guerilla should tame the game a little. The realistic motion made my wife motion-sick after a few minutes. So I aborted the game. Surprisingly, after an hour later, she asked me to restart the game (from first Chapter) and stayed through the entire first Chapter. She even asked if there is local co-op for the game.

The second thing is to make it a little easier for noobs like me to make a kill. I don't quite know what it is yet. It could be auto-balancing, or easier aiming, or whatever. If I won some, and lost some MP games, the disc may stay in the PS3. Now, I think U2 will stay in the console.

There are also too much loading in the game. Would be great if KZ3 can fix these issues.

EDIT: I think it would also help if KZ3 do something unexpected with the cool gears. God of War is very imaginative in this aspect.

 

[JPT]

I don't know how you play, but you should fire in short bursts, keep pumping out those short bursts and you should be able to hit better.

 

[patsu]

I tried short and long bursts. Could be a lag issue, or just rusty since my opponents seem rather seasoned in the game. Then again, KZ2 does not have team balancing built-in.

It means I have to persist in the game and grow some more skills. But I may not have the time and patience to do it with so many other entertainment options. I still love the game though, especially the Southern Hills map.

 

[Arwin]

The second thing is to make it a little easier for noobs like me to make a kill. I don't quite know what it is yet. It could be auto-balancing, or easier aiming, or whatever. If I won some, and lost some MP games, the disc may stay in the PS3. Now, I think U2 will stay in the console.

Could you check if the new aiming method is (still) on for you in the options? You may have experimented with it or not used the new system at all, but I remember having a similar experience as you did when I went back into the game and everyone was using the new system but me ... When I switched kills came a lot easier.

Of course, there are also percentagewise more seasoned players in Killzone 2 multiplayer now than before, so that could be it too. But the faster aiming that was introduced a while ago and made default for new users since is definitely very important.

Actually, since you have two PS3s and probably never played it on the one at home, that's probably it.

 

[JPT]

We are talking seriously short burst, maybe 1-2 bullets per burst and keeping pumping them out towards your target, that should get you the hits you need.