PS3 deliberately hard to program?

[PC-Engine]

You're missing the whole point. When I say extra PCB costs I'm talking about additional costs over the DC board NOT the NAOMI board. Strip a DC board of all components leaving just the PCB itself and use that as reference. How much do you think the PCB would cost? Let's say the board costed $30. Now let's say a condensed version of an N2 board was 2X the cost. That's still only $60 which is only $10 more than my original estimate.

Like I said, you're underestimating the cost of things.

...and you're overestimating...what's new? Aren't you the one who always brings up the cost to purchase a N2 board when it's irrelevent? Anyway, since you seem so confident, why don't you tell me how much you think the DC's PCB stripped of all components would cost?

 

[Panajev2001a]

That is not a good metric to calculate the PCB's cost with a much more complex architecture used on...

Even if you knew the PCB cost of the DC stripped of tis component you could not just add the cost of more components ( 2 GPUs, more mmeory, etc... ) You would have a more complex PCB and a bigger PCB too... the costs would be higher than you think and cooling the puppy would be something to think about too ( and the wiring would be complex... Elan is a discreet chip )...

You have more memory pools and 2 extra discreete chips ( Elan and the second PVR2 CLX )... this is something that would cost you quite a bit...

 

[PC-Engine]

That is not a good metric to calculate the PCB's cost with a much more complex architecture used on...

Even if you knew the PCB cost of the DC stripped of tis component you could not just add the cost of more components ( 2 GPUs, more mmeory, etc... ) You would have a more complex PCB and a bigger PCB too... the costs would be higher than you think and cooling the puppy would be something to think about too ( and the wiring would be complex... Elan is a discreet chip )...

You have more memory pools and 2 extra discreete chips ( Elan and the second PVR2 CLX )... this is something that would cost you quite a bit...

Do you even know what I'm talking about???? I'm not adding ANYTHING! My simple question is, how much do you think the DC's PCB costed without all the components? I don't care what the components cost because I've already listed the costs in my previous post. I'm STRICTLY talking about the PCB, you know the green thing made of epoxy/fiberglass with traces.

 

[zurich]

Why does it matter what DCs PCB cost w/o any of the components? Your argument has gotten a little screwy over the last few pages

How about you restate your thesis for good measure!

 

[PC-Engine]

Why does it matter what DCs PCB cost w/o any of the components? Your argument has gotten a little screwy over the last few pages

How about you restate your thesis for good measure!

It matters and I'll explain the logic when the naysayers can come up with the cost of a stripped PCB

The naysayers don't seem to be able to come up with a figure because they know it will backfire

 

[zurich]

Why does it matter what DCs PCB cost w/o any of the components? Your argument has gotten a little screwy over the last few pages

How about you restate your thesis for good measure!

It matters and I'll explain the logic when the naysayers can come up with the cost of a stripped PCB

The naysayers don't seem to be able to come up with a figure because they know it will backfire

Alright, well then, until then, I'll just remain boggled.

 

[Lazy8s]

Simon F:

IIRC, the silicon area of Naomi 2 was smaller than that of the PS2. There was no point in cost reducing it (i.e. putting everything into one chip) as it was for the arcade market where systems pay for themselves very very quickly. FWIW it would not have been much more expensive than the N1.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4315&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[V3]

...and you're overestimating...what's new? Aren't you the one who always brings up the cost to purchase a N2 board when it's irrelevent? Anyway, since you seem so confident, why don't you tell me how much you think the DC's PCB stripped of all components would cost?

What good is it to ponder on these things ?

Anyway N2 consoles with some Xbox spec, would be like this double the cost of DC and add $100. That would be around $700.

Maybe Sega is like you, always underestimating cost, that's why DC was doom from the beginning.

 

[PC-Engine]

...and you're overestimating...what's new? Aren't you the one who always brings up the cost to purchase a N2 board when it's irrelevent? Anyway, since you seem so confident, why don't you tell me how much you think the DC's PCB stripped of all components would cost?

What good is it to ponder on these things ?

Anyway N2 consoles with some Xbox spec, would be like this double the cost of DC and add $100. That would be around $700.

Maybe Sega is like you, always underestimating cost, that's why DC was doom from the beginning.

You mean like taking an N2 arcade board, putting a plastic box around it, and slapping on a X logo? Yes that would be expensive. If that is what you believe then there is no point in arguing with you.

 

[Lazy8s]

V3:

Anyway N2 consoles with some Xbox spec, would be like this double the cost of DC

A Naomi 2-like console isn't some "double Dreamcast" (it's more like a base Dreamcast with added T&L). There's not two of everything in there.

The goal behind the Naomi 2 upgrade was for a more powerful, backwardly-compatible architecture. Even if the goal had been "double Dreamcast" (which it wasn't), you still wouldn't need a duplicate of every component in the system. The cost wouldn't be double because you wouldn't need some of the component overlap.

Also, a good portion of the cost of console manufacturing comes from fixed expenses like labor, assembly, materials, unit casing, and packaging. Trading up from DC to a Naomi 2 console doesn't double these costs either.

 

[PC-Engine]

What are you saying Lazy? Of course you need two modems, two GDROM drives, two controllers, two sound chips, 8 controller ports, and two power supplies.

 

[Panajev2001a]

When the circle jerk ends, just signal and I will drop some tissues there...

Do not worry, I won't look

 

[zurich]

When the circle jerk ends, just signal and I will drop some tissues there...

Do not worry, I won't look

These two have lost me totally. They're in their own DC-frothing-inside-joke world, poking fun at the outsiders for not understanding their fuzzy logic!

Either of you care to spell out your point, again?

 

[marconelly!]

This thread needs some arguing in the direction of - was C64 better than Spectrum 48K or was it the opposite? How about those first TI calculators compared to first HPs?