scooby_dooby
Legend
TheChefO said:
lol...ya but june has come and gone....no announcement :smile:
PS2 outselling XBox 360
- Thread starter SPM
- Start date
lol...ya but june has come and gone....no announcement :smile:
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
eb said:
And what I find hard to believe is that you don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that the Core wasn't planned to move units for early adoptors. In fact, the only reason they released it at the same time was because they didn't want to release it later (to coincide with a price drop) and read all the stories about the 'inferior version' they were selling.
So they released them at the same time to get all those stories, which you seem very persuaded by, out of the way.
$299 is THE price point for console launches. Those consoles come with what? NOTHING except a wired controller. Thats what the Core gives you.
The Premium version is a bundle, plain and simple, and I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp. OF COURSE buying all those accessories individually will cost more money than buying them at once in a bundle. THUS the attraction to BUNDLES!
What MS did with the Core is keep the entry price for a next gen console the SAME as it was last gen. And when they do a price drop, the Core is going to become extremely attractive for the population of the market that buys consoles after the first price drop.
I know I've never purchased a console prior to it's price drop, because $299 is simply too much money. $199? Now that I can justify spending on a new console (because it's not $199.. it's $199 plus a mem card, plus at least one game).
When you factor in that most people aren't online, don't need more memory space in the foreseeable future beyond what a mem card provides, and aren't used to (or don't want) wireless controllers, the Core is a very good value. For that segment of the market which by the way, happens to be far larger than the segment of the market that needs/wants/requires those things.
scooby_dooby
Legend
RancidLunchmeat said:
Except they intentionally crippled it by giving it a wired controller, and completely overpricing the peripherals.
You think MS is oblivious to the fact the core is completely undesireable? (Even the most casual gamer wants a wireless controller) No, this is a purposeful move, for whatever reason they want to move premiums right now. As soon as they decide they want to push the core, they can make a couple minor tweaks and the Core will become attractive.
scooby_dooby said:
Actually, do you want to hear something really funny? My nephew has a 360 (he's really young, under 10) with both wireless and wired controllers. I was over and saw him playing with a wired controller instead of the wireless. My first thought was probably battery died or sometthing. To my surprise, it was fully charged and working. So I asked him why he's playing with a wired controller instead of the wired. He said he doesn't know...and then he said he like the wired ones better. Now, as I watched him play, I noticed something...during screen loads he would swing the cord. Holding the cord and spin the controller. Oh the horror...
Anyway, I think to the average consumer and kids, those little things don't mean much to them and really have little value. Japanese kids don't care that the PSP has more power than the DS...and definitely not their parents. At the end of the day, Nintendo might be right...it's all about the pricing.
This is the third best non-holiday (Nov, Dec) monthly NPD Xbox system sales ever. The top 3:
1. Xbox April 04 297k
2. X360 April 06 295k
3. X360 June 06 277k
Another point, PS2 NPD through it's first June had it at 2.7 million, X360 is at 2.0 million. Less, but not as hugely so as youd expect given the doom and gloom (and obviously, PS2 is the best selling console ever).
So I think these numbers are better than people seem to think.
I mean there's two ways to spin it "X360 cant even beat the PS2", or, "PS2 at $129, with the biggest library in history, can barely beat the brand new 360 at $400!" Take your pick.
Also recall the original Xbox was at 199 by this point in response to feeble sales, where X360 the majority are sold at 399.
Anyways there is a rumor circulating at GAF of a new "Pro pack" to be released by MS first week of August, that would supposedly be the premium pack plus a 1250 Live points card (around $15 worth), a three month free Live Gold card, and PGR3 packed in, for $399 to replace the premium. It's just rumor but undeniably appealing, short of an actual price cut. Gamespot covered it here:
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=24804690&sid=6154119
Another thing is 360 had basically one game in June, Moto GP. Over G fighters also came like June 29th I think, that's it. In July you have Prey, BFME2, Chromehounds, already, and NCAA football July 18, all bigger than anything in June, though still not huge titles.
Then in August you get Madden, Dead Rising, Saints Row in late August as well. Combine that with that supposed Pro pack and maybe they can rise sales.
1. Xbox April 04 297k
2. X360 April 06 295k
3. X360 June 06 277k
Another point, PS2 NPD through it's first June had it at 2.7 million, X360 is at 2.0 million. Less, but not as hugely so as youd expect given the doom and gloom (and obviously, PS2 is the best selling console ever).
So I think these numbers are better than people seem to think.
I mean there's two ways to spin it "X360 cant even beat the PS2", or, "PS2 at $129, with the biggest library in history, can barely beat the brand new 360 at $400!" Take your pick.
Also recall the original Xbox was at 199 by this point in response to feeble sales, where X360 the majority are sold at 399.
Anyways there is a rumor circulating at GAF of a new "Pro pack" to be released by MS first week of August, that would supposedly be the premium pack plus a 1250 Live points card (around $15 worth), a three month free Live Gold card, and PGR3 packed in, for $399 to replace the premium. It's just rumor but undeniably appealing, short of an actual price cut. Gamespot covered it here:
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=24804690&sid=6154119
Another thing is 360 had basically one game in June, Moto GP. Over G fighters also came like June 29th I think, that's it. In July you have Prey, BFME2, Chromehounds, already, and NCAA football July 18, all bigger than anything in June, though still not huge titles.
Then in August you get Madden, Dead Rising, Saints Row in late August as well. Combine that with that supposed Pro pack and maybe they can rise sales.
scooby_dooby
Legend
TrungGap said:
That's like arguing that some people wouldn't mind a wired remote for their TV. Wireless is always better, and I personally think it's one of the major downsides to the core package. Actually, I can't think of one logical reason MS would have done this, other than to discourage Core sales, the price difference must be negligible.
scooby_dooby
Legend
zed said:
Well there's NA retailers selling for $360 I believe, so that doesn't really mean anything.
If it's not an official pricecut, then it's not really relevent.
who's discounting in the states, walmart? this store chain is the single largest store chain in nz, ie its >= walmart (for the kiwi market) + for them to start discounting the product in less than 4months is pretty significant thats its not selling at its current pricepoint.scooby_dooby said:
(nitpick) im not 100% sure now but a couple of moths ago the ps1 has the largest library in history, anyways on day1 of ps3 u will access to a library of >10,000 compatable games (not a bad launch number)
scooby_dooby said:
So?
Their fiscal quarter ended just 2 weeks ago. 2 weeks isn't nearly enough time to compile all of MS's corporate data and generate a quarterly financial statement to submit to investors and the SEC.
They RAISED their shipping estimates less then 2 months before the deadline. That should be all the proof they were going to hit that goal anyone needs.
well there's several points to answer, but I think this clears up my views:
1) MS dropping the HDD as standard was a mistake for a couple of reasons
a) technically a standard HDD can only benfit
b) shotages of the premium at launch (with many buying HDD add-on IF they could find one) - so this is a conn (in my eyes)
2) Core should have been released when shortages had been sorted, many pre-orders missed a launch unit or were (effectively) forced to buy a core and then try to track down an overpriced HDD
3) Most early adopters I know wanted BC for something, I for example cannot live without Pro Evo Soccer, we all have our weaknesses!
4) Most early adopters play online (well as MS would have us believe), therefore needed a HDD.
I suppose I'm really re-going over stuff here, but obviously some find it hard to imagine why I dislike the core. If MS had to launch a core then it should have been left for later in the consoles life cycle, but then they'd miss the chance to make a bundle on accessories due to Premium shortages.
1) MS dropping the HDD as standard was a mistake for a couple of reasons
a) technically a standard HDD can only benfit
b) shotages of the premium at launch (with many buying HDD add-on IF they could find one) - so this is a conn (in my eyes)
2) Core should have been released when shortages had been sorted, many pre-orders missed a launch unit or were (effectively) forced to buy a core and then try to track down an overpriced HDD
3) Most early adopters I know wanted BC for something, I for example cannot live without Pro Evo Soccer, we all have our weaknesses!
4) Most early adopters play online (well as MS would have us believe), therefore needed a HDD.
I suppose I'm really re-going over stuff here, but obviously some find it hard to imagine why I dislike the core. If MS had to launch a core then it should have been left for later in the consoles life cycle, but then they'd miss the chance to make a bundle on accessories due to Premium shortages.
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thenefariousone
Newcomer
1)The standard HDD in the xbox was of very little benefit, with it's most common use being a giant memory card.
b)it's also a component who's cost doesnt go down over time, having it non-standard helps to keep costs down.
c)there were shortages across the board at launch, and HDDs had nothing to do with it.
2)There were shortages across the board at launch, and HDDs had nothing to do with it. furthermore, one of the key selling points of the system is the $299 entry price point. Take away the cores, take that away too.
3,4)Early adopters typically have to suffer through first iterations of hardware, and deal with whatever bugs or lack of initial software that happen.
The benefit and the curse of being an early adopter. The first ipods had battery troubles, some new laptops set your pants on fire, some first generation hd-dvd players take a minute to start up, etc..
5)The core could not be launched later in the console. It had to be there from day 1.
The issues are being clouded. Launch shortages affected both the core and the premium bundles.
Maybe your dislike of the core stems from a different reason. Were you one of those people who expected the xbox360 would come with a hd and headset for $299?
I'm not understanding the hate for the wireless controller either. It is less convenient to have a wired controller, but otherwise it doesn't make any real difference to the average consumer. It's not like the controllers are crippled in some way.
ps2s sold just fine with wired controllers.
b)it's also a component who's cost doesnt go down over time, having it non-standard helps to keep costs down.
c)there were shortages across the board at launch, and HDDs had nothing to do with it.
2)There were shortages across the board at launch, and HDDs had nothing to do with it. furthermore, one of the key selling points of the system is the $299 entry price point. Take away the cores, take that away too.
3,4)Early adopters typically have to suffer through first iterations of hardware, and deal with whatever bugs or lack of initial software that happen.
The benefit and the curse of being an early adopter. The first ipods had battery troubles, some new laptops set your pants on fire, some first generation hd-dvd players take a minute to start up, etc..
5)The core could not be launched later in the console. It had to be there from day 1.
The issues are being clouded. Launch shortages affected both the core and the premium bundles.
Maybe your dislike of the core stems from a different reason. Were you one of those people who expected the xbox360 would come with a hd and headset for $299?
I'm not understanding the hate for the wireless controller either. It is less convenient to have a wired controller, but otherwise it doesn't make any real difference to the average consumer. It's not like the controllers are crippled in some way.
ps2s sold just fine with wired controllers.
eb said:
WRT shortages (and this covers most of thenefariousones points really), MS would have known rough take-up of pre-orders. Example...my pre-order shop had 33 pre-orders, IIRC 1 was a core. I'm fairly certain if everyone had had the choice sales would have been 10:1 in the Premium favour - yet MS decided not to match this 'demand', as a result many didn't get a machine at launch, some resorted to paying well over the odds for the HDD...and frankly it was only *some* because of the HDD shortage...and don't even get me started on the 2 mth hunt for a RGB lead!
I disagree about the HDD, and internal 20gb wouldn't cost too much (IMHO) at that level I would have thought a small price to pay for the advantages, but then I'm no developer - however with MS pushing the d/l of content they've effectively cut off their noses haven't they?
expletive, if you only intended on playing one game and not d/l anything you may get away with it - but forget d/l demos, new maps etc etc...patches only.
FTR I'm in the UK and was VERY happy with the Premium @ £290, I expected to have to pay more...what I wasn't happy about was that people who didn't pre order got a machine before me cos they were happy with the core...I didn't really see that as fair, I believe in a first come first served system.
I disagree about the HDD, and internal 20gb wouldn't cost too much (IMHO) at that level I would have thought a small price to pay for the advantages, but then I'm no developer - however with MS pushing the d/l of content they've effectively cut off their noses haven't they?
expletive, if you only intended on playing one game and not d/l anything you may get away with it - but forget d/l demos, new maps etc etc...patches only.
FTR I'm in the UK and was VERY happy with the Premium @ £290, I expected to have to pay more...what I wasn't happy about was that people who didn't pre order got a machine before me cos they were happy with the core...I didn't really see that as fair, I believe in a first come first served system.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
eb said:
My god! What are you talking about? Didn't you just go through an entire list of who knows what, explaining why the Core sucks, why MS shouldn't have made it, and how nobody would want one? Now you say people were happy with the Core?
Uhh.. right. So what if you ordered a pickup truck with a bedliner in it and somebody else who ordered the pickup truck without the bedliner got theirs first?
So what if they decided they'd rather have the truck without the bedliner now and then go pay more money to have somebody other than the dealer put the bedliner in?
It's still first come first serve, and at the end of the day, you've both gotten what you wanted and paid what you thought was reasonable.
If you didn't think it was reasonable to buy a Core and upgrade it later, for the priveledge of having it immediately, that was your choice.
It's a free market. There were shortages. Which means that while you made one choices, others made different choices. As your quote above indicates.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Powderkeg said:
So it's unconfirmed.
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