Develop source: New Xbox console on desks at EA

[eastmen]

of topic rant:

It's clear you don't like Sony, or atleast you don't respect their achievements this generation I say this because I have read your comments over the years and its clear what you think about MS (not a bad thing in itself but in the case of Sony it keeps you from giving credit where its do on some things). I say your not objective because you have admited that you don't think Sony innovated this generation (I remember a post by you to that effect a while ago).

What did sony do to inovate ? It seems to me that they tried their best to copy MS step for step and are trying to catch up.

I don't actually see any inovations from them

Online gaming - Sega
Online gaming store - MS
Online video store - MS
online music - MS
Cross game communication - MS

Sony has been behind since the dreamcast released. They were just lucky their hype was able to kill the dreamcast when it did and gave them a large foot hold before the other guys launched. The hype machine that they tried to start against the xbox 360 didn't work and us the comsumers are the lucky ones


I think its really interesting to see sony's strategy come back and bite them in the ass by a competitor that can do what they were doing better.

The playstation took off because sony was able to leverage its talent at making hardware and use its deep pockets (compared to sega and nintendo) to buy support and price their systems low.

Now MS is the big fish (easily dwarfing sony ) and ms was able to buy support and is now able to leverage its talent at making software and its deep pockets to over take Sony .

its just a repeat but moving foward its going to be the software that matters

Its perfectly fine to prefer one service over the other but at some point your comments sound more like cheerleading than anything rational which we can discuss. PSN is down and there are some major security issues but lets not forget Sony is dealing with the blowback of GEOHOT and all his friends in the hacker community.

The xbox and xbox 360 were both hacked and ms has never had a massive failure like this. You shouldn't pass the blame onto Geohot , this is all on sonys shoulders. They should have taken proper security measures from the onset

Would MS being fairing any better if a talented segment of the hacker community was angry with MS and wanted to shut down Live? You can say whatever you want but Live has been down several times this generation and now PSN is dealing with an organized attack on their business. Could Sony have dealt with GEOHOT better? Perhaps but I don't see where attacking PSN does anything to advance the discussion on your part.

both live and psn have gone down multiple times , this has allways been due to user demand outstripping resources. The worse time for ms was 4 days. This sony fiasco is almost at a month now and may keep going till the end of this month. Not only that but many people are getting new cards from bank of america and boa is refusing to say what service is problem but user reports are linking all those cards to psn.

I prefer Sony's OS layout over Xbox too but I think there are some areas where the simplicity of MS approach is superior to Sony's as the options in the XMB can be overwhelming (and poorly documented) for some. MS has done a fantastic job creating an online community for gamers and they have also added services like ESPN3 which add a lot of value for what you pay. With that said PSN does what you need a online service to do namely connect with friends and compete with each other. PSN has improved since it was launched and while there are some glaring omissions overall most of us who use the service are satisfied with the functionality.

Sonys OS takes way to long to do anything inside of it. Its one of the reasons i never use it . Well that and the fact that my ps3 is busted .

 

[Nesh]

Goes to check psn... doesn't exist.... doesn't understand your comment.


Ms has everything right and sony still has everything wrong. There service is getting close to a month of down time

What does PSN being down recently after the hacking have to do with what we have been discussing? Please bring arguements to support the claim Sony is doing everything wrong

 

[BadTB25]

What did sony do to inovate ?

HOME.....I kid, I kid:smile:

I have both a PS3 and X360, but have only really utilized Live. The few times I utilized PSN for gaming was an underwhelming experience for me.

Live just gives you a better feeling of being "connected", whereas PSN feels more isolated. Maybe it's because the experience on Live is more consistent where PSN the experience is largely individual developer dependent and it really varies from game to game.

 

[temesgen]

What did sony do to inovate ? It seems to me that they tried their best to copy MS step for step and are trying to catch up.

I don't actually see any inovations from them

Online gaming - Sega
Online gaming store - MS
Online video store - MS
online music - MS
Cross game communication - MS

Sony has been behind since the dreamcast released. They were just lucky their hype was able to kill the dreamcast when it did and gave them a large foot hold before the other guys launched. The hype machine that they tried to start against the xbox 360 didn't work and us the comsumers are the lucky ones

I think its really interesting to see sony's strategy come back and bite them in the ass by a competitor that can do what they were doing better.

The playstation took off because sony was able to leverage its talent at making hardware and use its deep pockets (compared to sega and nintendo) to buy support and price their systems low.

Now MS is the big fish (easily dwarfing sony ) and ms was able to buy support and is now able to leverage its talent at making software and its deep pockets to over take Sony .

its just a repeat but moving foward its going to be the software that matters



The xbox and xbox 360 were both hacked and ms has never had a massive failure like this. You shouldn't pass the blame onto Geohot , this is all on sonys shoulders. They should have taken proper security measures from the onset

both live and psn have gone down multiple times , this has allways been due to user demand outstripping resources. The worse time for ms was 4 days. This sony fiasco is almost at a month now and may keep going till the end of this month. Not only that but many people are getting new cards from bank of america and boa is refusing to say what service is problem but user reports are linking all those cards to psn.





Sonys OS takes way to long to do anything inside of it. Its one of the reasons i never use it . Well that and the fact that my ps3 is busted .

Off the top of my head:

Cell processor
non-proprietary hard drive upgrade
at launch run other OS - feature removed later unfortunately
free online service
web browser? - not sure if Dreamcast had a browser
remote play thru PSP - not a lot of games but they did it first
fold at home

I think your list of things MS did to innovate is a bit disingenuous. Online Music??? As if that wasn't going to be available on both platforms... Look MS and Sony both built on what previous hardware manufacturers have done and they also evaluated what features would appeal to their target demographics in part to justify price or in the case of LIVE to justify the annual fee. If anything its a bit ironic to gush over MS for offering streaming movies and attack Sony for including a blu ray drive - because blu ray isn't needed.

Sony was slow to roll out services and MS did a better job upfront packaging everything together but again you over state MS's achievements and downplay Sony's innovations (see earlier list) and efforts to get the platform back on track after a horrible launch.

You also seem to think that MS put all this together without recognizing that in many cases what you claim as innovation was nothing more than the logical evolution of the network. If I have an MP3 player it makes sense to be able to connect it to my set top box/videogame system and play songs off it, Similarly VOD was taking off and it makes sense to leverage the hardware capabilities of the platform to allow people to watch movies. This isn't the result of MS's all seeing eye, we just got to the place where the hardware was sophisticated enough to integrate the offerings that were available on other platforms on one device and btw aggregating those features helped to justify the price...

Finally you can say whatever you want about PSN as everyone is entitled to their own opinions, for me it is pretty clear that Sony is in a fight with a talented group of hackers who want to destroy the brand due to perceived grievances. That is not the same thing as what we have seen previously this generation and I doubt MS would fair much better if the collective resources of GEOHOTs friends were directed at LIVE.

One more thing, for all the great things MS supposedly is going they like Sony got beat horribly this generation by Nintendo. Perhaps MS got it all right for you but for the average person who purchased hardware this generation it was Nintendo who got it right,

 

[rabidrabbit]

Motion gaming is also one Sony innovation that should not be forgotten, but which often conveniently is.

 

[BadTB25]

Free on-line and a web browser on a console was first done on the Dreamcast. The credit goes to SEGA for being the first on these 2 features.

 

[BadTB25]

Motion gaming is also one Sony innovation that should not be forgotten, but which often conveniently is.

I don't know. I could also classify motion games as first done on the Dreamcast. Games like Samba De Amigo and SEGA Bass Fishing had controllers that could be considered motion control games.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I don't know. I could also classify motion games as first done on the Dreamcast. Games like Samba De Amigo and SEGA Bass Fishing had controllers that could be considered motion control games.

I stand corrected.
Although a standard motion controller that is used in more than one game, which wasn't a 'gimmick' was probably innovated by Sony.
If that doesn't stick either, then a controller free gaming. That was invented by Sony with EyeToy

Then again, can any of eastmen's innovations really be called such, as all of them already had been invented for other gaming or media devices.

 

[function]

Motion gaming is also one Sony innovation that should not be forgotten, but which often conveniently is.

In what world did Sony invent motion gaming? Motion controllers were big on the Dreamcast, and it even had a camera (which Sega demoed motion stuff for) long before Eyetoy.

Edit: And there were a number of other motion controllers pre-DC, from third party things with mercury tilt switches (for various platforms) to stuff like the Sega Activator and Sega's analog tilt joypad for Nights 2 (never got released because the Saturn got canned).

It's not about coming up with ideas or even implementing them first - it's about implementing them then shouting the loudest. Credit is rarely given where it's due.

 

[function]

Free on-line and a web browser on a console was first done on the Dreamcast. The credit goes to SEGA for being the first on these 2 features.

They also had "Virtual Console" and download titles before the Gamecube existed, never mind the Wii.

Sega were a powerhouse of innovation. Imagine what they'd be doing now if they hadn't been so badly run. Too bad MS didn't buy them.

 

[Squilliam]

They also had "Virtual Console" and download titles before the Gamecube existed, never mind the Wii.

Sega were a powerhouse of innovation. Imagine what they'd be doing now if they hadn't been so badly run. Too bad MS didn't buy them.

Actually Microsoft made an offer, Sega refused. I think at this point Sega are probably kicking themselves that they refused. It probably would have turned out a lot better for both Microsoft and Sega that they simply bought Sega before the Dreamcast came out and had it released with more powerful graphics/more memory and decent copy protection with all the money needed to secure exclusives.

 

[function]

Actually Microsoft made an offer, Sega refused. I think at this point Sega are probably kicking themselves that they refused. It probably would have turned out a lot better for both Microsoft and Sega that they simply bought Sega before the Dreamcast came out and had it released with more powerful graphics/more memory and decent copy protection with all the money needed to secure exclusives.

It's been a while since I read this so it might not be quite right, but I think MS made their offer after Sega were already committed to the DC, so MS would have had to cover the cost of getting out of the DC (so they could have had their DirectX box) and Sega didn't want to give up on the DC.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'm positive Sony would, I'm positive Microsoft would not.

We'll agree to disagree.

I'm also going to put forth the theory that you have no idea why MS purchased Skype, do you?

MS has already stated that its main use would be for Windows Phone integration. Sure, they can add the service and its infrastructures to Live, but that would be the side purpose.

But looking at the boldness of your statement, I'm sure you must have some other conspiracy theory, probably about world domination or fighting evil aliens.

 

[-tkf-]

Goes to check psn... doesn't exist.... doesn't understand your comment.


Ms has everything right and sony still has everything wrong. There service is getting close to a month of down time

When PSN was working it was providing me and .. 38? million others with the services they needed and we paid nothing for that service. Obviously it sucks big time that it isn´t up. But at least it gives you the pleasure of acting out your Sony hate, so someone does have some enjoyment.

XBOX Live really must be a magic place.. a bit like online gaming on a pc.. where i can do everything, that i don´t really miss on my PS3. Your needs are.. your needs, don´t claim you know what others need or want.

 

[-tkf-]

What did sony do to inovate ? It seems to me that they tried their best to copy MS step for step and are trying to catch up.

I don't actually see any inovations from them

They made console games cool, you should be kissing their feet and bowing towards the Sony headquarters every time you turn on a console.

 

[BoardBonobo]

They made console games cool, you should be kissing their feet and bowing towards the Sony headquarters every time you turn on a console.

They didn't just make console games cool they made it available to the masses. We wouldn't have any of the consoles we have now without Sony's PS1. Also creating the CD was a pretty major step in allowing the evolution of console technology to take place.

Making DVD's an easily accessible consumer item was pretty important too. Sony basically created the environment that has allowed MS to propagate into. Hopefully MS won't be allowed to borg it up like they have with everything else they've bought their way into.

 

[Gubbi]

We wouldn't have any of the consoles we have today without the Atari 2600.
We wouldn't have any of the consoles we have today without the Nintendo Entertainment System.
We wouldn't have any of the consoles we have today without the Super Nintendo Entertainment System and Sega Megadrive.

Ad nauseam

Cheers

 

[function]

They made console games cool, you should be kissing their feet and bowing towards the Sony headquarters every time you turn on a console.

God knows my friend's gran wouldn't play on his Wii if Sony hadn't made games cool in the mid nineties!

 

[kagemaru]

What happened to this thread?

web browser? - not sure if Dreamcast had a browser

Actually the Saturn had a web browser.

It's been a while since I read this so it might not be quite right, but I think MS made their offer after Sega were already committed to the DC, so MS would have had to cover the cost of getting out of the DC (so they could have had their DirectX box) and Sega didn't want to give up on the DC.

Actually I think the DC was already taken behind the shed and shot by the time MS made the offer. I could be wrong though.

They made console games cool, you should be kissing their feet and bowing towards the Sony headquarters every time you turn on a console.

Joking right? They expanded the market through "cool" marketing and made gaming more widely accepted, but console gaming most likely would have still existed today, with or without Sony.

Expanding the market is obviously a good thing, but it also has it's share of negatives as well.

They didn't just make console games cool they made it available to the masses. We wouldn't have any of the consoles we have now without Sony's PS1. Also creating the CD was a pretty major step in allowing the evolution of console technology to take place.

Making DVD's an easily accessible consumer item was pretty important too. Sony basically created the environment that has allowed MS to propagate into. Hopefully MS won't be allowed to borg it up like they have with everything else they've bought their way into.

Sega, Atari, and 3DO all used CD before Sony.

 

[function]

Actually I think the DC was already taken behind the shed and shot by the time MS made the offer. I could be wrong though.

Maybe they considered buying Sega more than once? Seems plausible...

Sega, Atari, and 3DO all used CD before Sony.

Didn't NEC beat them all to it? It's true that Sony helped with the CD format itself, but I guess it all goes to show what an interconnected mess of inspiration, copying and enablement the history of video games is.

I thought games were cool long before the Playstation, but then again I'm not a cool person so maybe my views don't count!