Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Alexct]

If you are new here, it would help if you would first look back over the thread and what has already been established or hasn't.

If you did that, you would know that I was one of the foremost proponents of a 2-2.5 TF GPU, based on the leaked dev kits shots.

Bkilian, as well as saying not to expect a monster GPU also said this in regards to there being a 2 or 2.25 GPU in the kits (note, that he isn't merely refuting that there's a HD6870/6950 in the kits since I didn't mention the cards by name):

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1689116&postcount=16921

lherre also said 2.5 TF GPU was out of the question:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1692093&postcount=17785

Furthermore, the last solid info we had on the power of the GPU in the kit was from bgassassin whose source said 1+ TF and not close to the 1.8 TF GPU in the PS4 kits.

So that gives us the range of 1 to 1.5 TF.

If we can establish the provenance of the guy posting the 10 CUs @ 1Ghz rumours (basically a 7770) then maybe we have another piece of info.



It's possible that the GPU is custom so we can't guess by external appearance - this is most likely. But it could also be that we haven't guessed correctly and there's a lower power GPU that fits the bill, what does the 7770 look like from the back?

Bgassassin also thought it could be a 6790 which is 1.3 TF:

Again are all your assumptions.From that photo (fake or true??) looking at the outputs have supposed the GPU mounted.
In that comment you posted of Bkilian there is no reference either to the GPU or the number of TFLOPS.Only says that judging based on the output is not very reliable
Regarding Lherre those two no are quite ambiguous.
We'll see imho is absurd for MS come out with a console so underpowered but everything in life can be.We just have to wait.

 

[anexanhume]

It could mean 200W in the box itself. With an external PSU at least some of that efficiency lost would be contained in the brick.

Good point. I assume both will do an external brick.

 

[(((interference)))]

Again are all your assumptions.From that photo (fake or true??) looking at the outputs have supposed the GPU mounted.
In that comment you posted of Bkilian there is no reference either to the GPU or the number of TFLOPS.Only says that judging based on the output is not very reliable
Regarding Lherre those two no are quite ambiguous.
We'll see imho is absurd for MS come out with a console so underpowered but everything in life can be.We just have to wait.

This isn't GAF , where being ignorant and having blind faith in your faction of choice is a virtue.

If you'd actually read what I said, you'd know these are not my assumptions from that photo (which is legit, if you don't even know that much, you are way behind).

My assumptions from that photo were that there was a 2+ TF GPU in the kits.
Bkilian & lherre have both shot that down and so since the evidence no longer supports it, I have revised my position.
Which also ties in perfectly to what bgassassin was saying originally.

And yes while it is weak a 1.2 TF GPU like the 7770 would be about 8-10x the performance of Xenos (given the improvements in efficiency in modern GPU architectures). Plus, this is before you look at any MS specific customisations

 

[Helmore]

I guess that 8 Jaguar cores along with 10 CUs @1 GHz would be around 70 Watts or so...

 

[LXFBN]

I guess that 8 Jaguar cores along with 10 CUs @1 GHz would be around 70 Watts or so...

The GPU alone would pull about 70 watts.

 

[AlphaWolf]

So you think it will be a discrete gpu?

 

[bitsandbytes]

I guess that 8 Jaguar cores along with 10 CUs @1 GHz would be around 70 Watts or so...

I would think it'd be a fair few watts higher than that. Looking here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7770_OC/24.html

A standard HD 7770 uses 73W (Game peak) or 83W (Furmark peak). Take off say 20W for the GDDR5 etc and that leaves 53-63W just for the GPU.

On top of this, we now know there are multi DSPs/customisations for both CPU and GPU to add to the mix.

At the end of the day both consoles will seem relatively "weak" on paper, but will be quite strong when we see the games.

 

[LXFBN]

I would think it'd be a fair few watts higher than that. Looking here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_7770_OC/24.html

A standard HD 7770 uses 73W (Game peak) or 83W (Furmark peak). Take off say 20W for the GDDR5 etc and that leaves 53-63W just for the GPU.

On top of this, we now know there are multi DSPs/customisations for both CPU and GPU to add to the mix.

At the end of the day both consoles will seem relatively "weak" on paper, but will be quite strong when we see the games.

No need for quotation marks, they'll be weak.

 

[Rangers]

No need for quotation marks, they'll be weak.

But they'll blow away current consoles by a likely real world factor of ~8X+ which is what mostly matters.

Take halo 4 and killzone 3 and give those guys 8 times the power. it will be nice. They can throw away a 2x factor on 1080p and still have 4x left.

 

[Proelite]

But they'll blow away current consoles by a likely real world factor of ~8X+ which is what mostly matters.

Take halo 4 and killzone 3 and give those guys 8 times the power. it will be nice. They can throw away a 2x factor on 1080p and still have 4x left.

Conservative estimate.

 

[Acert93]

I will say that for a certain console named after a city in Mexico, all of the specs, current to the date I left, are out there. You just have to pick and choose the right bits from the right rumors. But I suppose that's always been the hard part, hasn't it?

hahaha

That's a nice bike. Dunno about the puncture resistance though, are you sure that one is right?

muwahahaha

I think you're enjoying this entirely too much .

He is

Very accurate but very incomplete specs. Not sure about the 1.0 ghz cus, that's very hot for a console.

OK, so are you back to knowing what is in the console?

Furthermore, the last solid info we had on the power of the GPU in the kit was from bgassassin whose source said 1+ TF and not close to the 1.8 TF GPU in the PS4 kits.

So that gives us the range of 1 to 1.5 TF.

Funny guy! So not close to 1.8 gets given a range of 1.5 but 1+ gets rounded down to 1.

This isn't GAF

Exactly, so it would be just great if you went back to other posts asking you to stop picking/choosing rumors and speaking authoritatively as to what is and is not happening.

I feel this thread should open to a lot of information, rumor linking, technology insights, and general next gen development as it relates to predicting but there are so many faux insiders in the last 50 pages it is ridiculous.

Oh, and just because you know people who work in the industry and have dev kits doesn't mean they are giving some of you folks accurate information. Due to leaks (see: Acert93's old signature) companies sometimes go on the offensive, especially if it means releasing information about competing design concepts that were never chosen. Heck, I remember back when Sega had Black Belt (3DFX) and Dural (PVR) designs on the board.

 

[(((interference)))]

Funny guy! So not close to 1.8 gets given a range of 1.5 but 1+ gets rounded down to 1.

True, it'll be more than 1, say 1.1-1.5 TF.

Exactly, so it would be just great if you went back to other posts asking you to stop picking/choosing rumors and speaking authoritatively as to what is and is not happening.

I feel this thread should open to a lot of information, rumor linking, technology insights, and general next gen development as it relates to predicting but there are so many faux insiders in the last 50 pages it is ridiculous.

Acert93 if you don't like speculation, then this isn't the thread for you. Come back when we have some hard facts.

Some of us, however, do like to synthesise info from the various reliable rumours into a more complete picture.
Bkilian says that info is out there, so it isn't a pointless endeavour.

Now, I'm under no delusions that I'm 100% correct, I'm just saying this is the most likely picture of the kits, given what we know at this point in time.

And for others like N2O, Proelite etc who are claiming that the GPU in the kits is far more powerful, the onus is on them to provide evidence for those beliefs and show why I am mistaken. Otherwise, their scenario remains the less probable one.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

If memory serves right that figure comes from the fact that Xenon core can do a dot product which account for how don't know how many FLOPS in I don't know how many cycles.
Anyway usually FMA are accepted as measurement of FLOPS as it is a really common instruction.

Are you saying the PPU in the Cell can't do a dot product? That wasn't added in for the PPU in the Cell.

 

[XpiderMX]

The 4GB GDDR5 thing is legit? Is really profitable going for 1.8Tflop/4GB GDDR5 specs?

 

[Bagel seed]

And do we know for a fact that alpha kits are at 1.84 TFLOPS?

Nothing is 100% of course but it seemed to be implied 1.84TF wasn't the final spec. And the devkits are still changing. So, maybe we'll see 1.9TF by the end...

 

[JasonLD]

Wait, where did that 1.84 TFLOPS come from all the sudden?

 

[Proelite]

Wait, where did that 1.84 TFLOPS come from all the sudden?

VGLeaks.

 

[Docwiz]

The 4GB GDDR5 thing is legit? Is really profitable going for 1.8Tflop/4GB GDDR5 specs?

Well, if the Orbis is supposed to be affordable the memory can't be 4GB @ GDDR5. There is no way that is possible. My Nvidia 670GTX has only 2GB of GDDR5 and it was $400. So ummmm no way...

Put that in a fanboy dream. It might have 4GB of memory, but it's definitely not GDDR5.

 

[XpiderMX]

Well, if the Orbis is supposed to be affordable the memory can't be 4GB @ GDDR5. There is no way that is possible. My Nvidia 670GTX has only 2GB of GDDR5 and it was $400. So ummmm no way...

Put that in a fanboy dream. It might have 4GB of memory, but it's definitely not GDDR5.

Or 2GB GDDR5?

 

[Bagel seed]

It'll be stacked DDR4. MS may and probably will do the same (or with DDR3)