Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Proelite]

Was the info that Sweetvar posted before or after this I can't seem to remember.

Before. Sweetvar was the first person to mention Thebes and Kryptos, and he did it in April I think. Seronx is not confirmed, and even now he regularly changes his information.

Btw, 192 SP is 48 CUs, which is 50% more than 7970.

He might have legit sources but he obsfucates a lot of it with bullshit.

 

[Ruskie]

People, please don't post random forum posts. The only reason why Sweetvar26 is discussed is because he was the first with codenames and specs which later have been confirmed by other sources as true, and all of his posts where deleted from GAF and from Google Cache.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Btw, 192 SP is 48 CUs, which is 50% more than 7970.

7970 has 2048 Stream Processors. What SPs are you talking about?

 

[XpiderMX]

From April:

Multiple sources have confirmed this morning that the machine will have two GPUs. One said: “It’s like two PCs taped together.” We’re waiting for final confirmation of specs, but the graphics cards are thought to be equivalent to AMD’s 7000 series GPUs, but “not CrossFire or SLI”. The GPUs aren’t structured as they are in a normal dual PC set-up, in which the two chips take it in turns to draw lines of the same object: Xbox 720′s graphics units will be able to work independently, drawing separate items simultaneously.


There will be “four or six” cores to the Xbox 720 CPU, one of which will be reserved for Kinect and one for the OS.


We’ve also been told that the next generation of Kinect will be built into the device as standard.

From vg247. I don't know if it is relevant.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Jaguar 4c SOC :~ $50
2 sticks DDR4 :~ $100
Raytracer :~ $150

I think that tells you all you need to know about the legitimacy of this seronx character, and why random posts really are just a waste of time.

 

[anexanhume]

So, if they are indeed going for x86 cores, what does everyone thinks this means for backwards compatibility (for both the 360 and PS3)? And as a tangent, remember the crazy talk about forwards compatibility for the next gen xbox a year or so ago?

I'd be interested if they place any value on Xbox and PS2 backwards compatibility. I'm guessing only through XBL and PSN to regenerate sales.

 

[babcat]

I really hope a powerful, discreet GPU is utilized in these systems. If not, I think they will not be nearly as attractive and exciting as they could be. I still think each of these systems need a discrete GPU at least as powerful as a GTX 680. Such a system with four to eight gigs of RAM could make games that look better than the original Crysis at maximum settings. With only an APU, due to the uncanny valley requiring more graphics horsepower to show significant graphics improvements, I think the graphical improvements will be modest at best. Also, with only an APU, the games will look outdated five to seven years from now due to GPU technology continuing to accelerate.

I wonder if Microsoft and Sony's goal is simply to make systems that can run current gen games at 60FPS with 3D and at 1080P, but not much more.

 

[XpiderMX]

I don't know if this info is relevant, from sweetvar26:

Alright, I'm in Toronto and was talking to my buddy who works at the AMD headquarters here.

As of what he tells me, they both are using same chip with different specifications from Sony and Microsoft, something like the market's 7700-7800, not really sure. He did mention the word "Jaguar processor".

As for the PS4, the first chip has already been sent out two months ago, it is back after a month or so, for the second revision. He says there should be a third and if they don't see any problems, should be ready for mass production. Apparently, AMD did delay the work, he says it is around 6 months behind schedule.

The Xbox 720/loop or whatever it is called, they are about to ship the chip tomorrow, they are expecting it back within a month or so for the second revision. Xbox is right on time, no delays so far. A feature for the Xbox that the PS4 doesn't have is something related to "ARM security". I did not get that part. However the internal talk at AMD is that, the Xbox is like a super computer(not sure if it is the chip or the console). Him and the team at AMD feels the Xbox is going to be more 'powerful'.

I did ask him to find out what the market equivalent card would the chips be, he said he will. Apparently the Xbox 720 team is sponsoring for lunch and a movie today(Looper), they are about to ship the first chip out tomorrow and they are expecting it back within a month for more revisions. He believes both the consoles should be out next fall, not far from each other.

P.S. He does not play games nor does he know anything about them. So he isn't as curious as you and I are.

Who said anything about PS4 having weaker specs? I mentioned how, the people who work on them think Xbox seems to be more powerful. I did mention that they are both using the same graphics chip, whatever market equivalent version is.

May be Microsoft just wants more RAM or something for their OS. Makes it powerful on paper, may be, not necessarily in use or when released in market.

Guys, as I said, he just assumes it is equivalent to a 7700 or 7800. He doesn't know that, could be a 7900 for all it's worth.

Not sure what information is worth while but here is what I saw.

PS4:

New Starsha GNB 28nm TSMC
Milos
Southern Islands

DX11
SM 5.0
Open CL 1.0
Quad Pixel pipes 4
SIMD’s 5
Texture Units 5TCP/2TCC
Render back ends 2
Scalar ALU’s 320

EDIT: Some of those were crossed, may be they were updated/changed at a later date, I have no idea.

Couple of more updates

Graphic North Bridge(GNB) Highlights
Fusion 1.9 support
DCE 7.0
UVD 4.0
VCE
IOMMU
ACP
5x8 GPP PCIE cores
SCLK 800MHz/LCLK 800MHz

Are you sure the info in your prior post (5 SIMD, 320 scalar ALU's etc) relates to PS4 and not something else?

It is related to Starsha, which is the PS4 project.

As far as I know.and what I've heard, both PS4 and Xbox 720 have APU+GPU.

Everything being provided by AMD.

 

[onQ]

I think that tells you all you need to know about the legitimacy of this seronx character, and why random posts really are just a waste of time.

Actually you read too much into that. he was just using that to show how much the Xbox Next could cost to build.

 

[Proelite]

I don't know if this info is relevant, from sweetvar26:

Ah so he did mention APU+GPU setups, which is contradictory from the first posts he made about Orbis, in which he said it was an APU solution.

This might be because he doesn't a complete understanding of what APUs are previously and then he corrects himself along the way.

Or Orbis specs were updated in the development process to include a discrete GPU in the final version.

Or confusion caused by difference between dev kits and the final version.

Based on what Bkilian said, an one chip solution is the best performing, so I am hoping that at least one of MS / Sony goes that route.

 

[Proelite]

Actually you read too much into that. he was just using that to show how much the Xbox Next could cost to build.

What about 192 GN sps?

That can't be stream processors since that would make the gpus potentially weaker than the ones in the 360.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Actually you read too much into that. he was just using that to show how much the Xbox Next could cost to build.

A flux capacity would add a fair bit too...

 

[mrcorbo]

I've been wondering whether there would be an advantage to coupling a CPU/GPU combo chip a la Fusion or Project Denver with a dedicated GPU chip in a next-generation console design. The eventual goal being with process improvements to bring all of the processing elements onto a single die, but allowing for more power in the initial design than a single-chip solution would be able to provide. The "local" GPU elements would be designed to share resources with the CPU elements and code would be able to explicitly target whether local or off-die GPU elements should be used for execution.

Now I'm counting on all of the forumers with a deeper understanding of these concepts to tell me why this idea is unfeasible, unnecessary or just plain dumb.

Quoting myself from `20 months ago. If we had started this discussion at that time we could have had this whole thing figured out by now.

 

[XpiderMX]

Based on what Bkilian said, an one chip solution is the best performing, so I am hoping that at least one of MS / Sony goes that route.

What if while we are on the dashboard, the GPU in the APU is used and the main GPU is "turned off" (not used)?

 

[onQ]

Ah so he did mention APU+GPU setups, which is contradictory from the first posts he made about Orbis, in which he said it was an APU solution.

This might be because he doesn't a complete understanding of what APUs are previously and then he corrects himself along the way.

Or Orbis specs were updated in the development process to include a discrete GPU in the final version.

Or confusion caused by difference between dev kits and the final version.

Based on what Bkilian said, an one chip solution is the best performing, so I am hoping that at least one of MS / Sony goes that route.

I think in a situation where the GPGPU in the APU is being used as a co-processor to help the CPU with the computing tasks & the other GPU is just for Graphics & need more bandwidth they wouldn't want to waste the faster memory on doing computing tasks if the VRAM is limited.

 

[function]

I don't understand why you'd create a console with two GPUs, each with its own set of restrictions limiting the possibilities for both GPU compute and rendering. It's less efficient and more work for developers to come to grips with. It all seems a bit "Sega Saturn"; throwing various different bits of hardware into console in a hurry to raise overall capability, but in an awkward and less cost effective way.

 

[ERP]

While I wouldn't entirely rule out Sweetvar26 having seen documents from AMD pertaining to PS4/720 he clearly doesn't understand anything he's listing in the posts and there is enough obviously wrong/missing information that IMO it calls the entire thing into question.

I also agree that an APU + a GPU makes little sense.

 

[Ruskie]

While I wouldn't entirely rule out Sweetvar26 having seen documents from AMD pertaining to PS4/720 he clearly doesn't understand anything he's listing in the posts and there is enough obviously wrong/missing information that IMO it calls the entire thing into question.

I also agree that an APU + a GPU makes little sense.

Yea, he did say he doesn't have slightest idea of the technology and that neither his friend understands everything. He almost uploaded NDA documents, some rather dumb users asked him to do it...

 

[bkilian]

Based on what Bkilian said, an one chip solution is the best performing, so I am hoping that at least one of MS / Sony goes that route.

Not necessarily best performing, but certainly most cost effective.

 

[Proelite]

Not necessarily best performing, but certainly most cost effective.

What do think about Big.little setups where two sets of CPUs never collaborate on tasks? i.e. one CPU for OS and apps and the other strictly for games.