What? The journalist says in the comments he was comfortable to claim it is 2x when IGN posted their article. They are not claiming its 5x like IGN but just confirmed better than 360.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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What? The journalist says in the comments he was comfortable to claim it is 2x when IGN posted their article. They are not claiming its 5x like IGN but just confirmed better than 360.
At least we are pretty sure that now something is in the tube and a 2013 release likely. So it's offically the start of the silly season and we may expect everybody and his brother to come with "insider info" in a relentless quest for "clicks" 
Out of all the rumors I would not dismiss Charlie's claims. IGN is big site may be they are not lying and heard something (true not true is another matter). Anyway it's likely that we will face more and more noise on that topic. In this world of hairy speculations and click quest I've found an hairy explanation for the discrepancies between the X6 claim and the HD6670 type of hardware, something that a marketing guy or not too tech oriented guy may come with.
In raw throughput the HD6670 is barely x4 times Xenos. A quad core with 8 wide simd units operating at reasonable clock speed may deliver twice (or more) the throughput of xenon. So 4+2=6
this is half a joke but in a world of hairy speculation and marketing guys you never know
Out of all the rumors I would not dismiss Charlie's claims. IGN is big site may be they are not lying and heard something (true not true is another matter). Anyway it's likely that we will face more and more noise on that topic. In this world of hairy speculations and click quest I've found an hairy explanation for the discrepancies between the X6 claim and the HD6670 type of hardware, something that a marketing guy or not too tech oriented guy may come with.
In raw throughput the HD6670 is barely x4 times Xenos. A quad core with 8 wide simd units operating at reasonable clock speed may deliver twice (or more) the throughput of xenon. So 4+2=6
this is half a joke but in a world of hairy speculation and marketing guys you never know I didn't say they were claiming that. I just said you chopped out quite important parts. Like the fact that the only verification they have for their article is another article from IGN that actually disagrees with there sources conclusion of 2x as powerful.
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PCs are shrinking, getting more power efficient and quieter. LOL ultrabooks etc. The trend for larger, hotter and noisier consoles had to end some time. Why not start with a system that everyone is happy to buy instead of spending five years and billions of dollars shrinking down to it?
tongue_of_colicab
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Not only that, that way you can either release a new console earlier and have consumers spend more money again or you can gain more profits because the hardware isn't such a financial burden.
I think we are about to hit the point where the average person doesn't care about more power anymore. Even a sandy bridge system or fusion system is capable of running most modern games at decent fps and for every day use even something like a i3 is already overkill.
Buying high end hardware just doesn't give you the performance advantages we used to have anymore.
Sure, a new i7 system with super gfx card runs things great. But my 4+ year old q6600 with 2gb ram and a 560ti runs every game out there with good settings at 1680x1050/1920x1080. And that's pretty much what most people will be game at. Not too long ago you wouldn't dream a 4+ year old system with only a modern mid range gpu would run all games with no problems.
(sorry for getting off topic)
bgassassin
Regular
You're doing selective reading like some other people. The writer said a developer told them late last year that it was 2x more powerful. However IGN's article confirms what they were told more recently about the dev kits. Read the last part of the article again. His comment reaffirms that.
EDIT: Upon further review I'm just going to say it was bad writing for now.
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east of eastside
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A small low cost box fits with the theme that has been repeated from MS lately about moving Xbox from a game box to an entertainment hub.
If you came out with another beast console, hot and loud with a noisy fan, it would take at least another 3 years before it was shrunk into anything resembling and entertainment hub.
A smaller, low cost box, on the other hand, can be marketed as an entertainment hub from the get go.
Frankly, I'm sick of the old concept of a game console. I would support either MS or Sony if they went the low cost hub direction.
Speaking of Sony, I have no illusions of them going for a much more high end console than MS. Maybe a notch more at most if they are a year later. After all they are in a terrible financial situation and the Japanese market with its struggled state of publishing and development didn't give much support to PS3. Look at Vita and how it is struggling to take off now. Does that give much encouragement to go all out on super console?
If you came out with another beast console, hot and loud with a noisy fan, it would take at least another 3 years before it was shrunk into anything resembling and entertainment hub.
A smaller, low cost box, on the other hand, can be marketed as an entertainment hub from the get go.
Frankly, I'm sick of the old concept of a game console. I would support either MS or Sony if they went the low cost hub direction.
Speaking of Sony, I have no illusions of them going for a much more high end console than MS. Maybe a notch more at most if they are a year later. After all they are in a terrible financial situation and the Japanese market with its struggled state of publishing and development didn't give much support to PS3. Look at Vita and how it is struggling to take off now. Does that give much encouragement to go all out on super console?
Megadrive1988
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yeah I thought that was really interesting. Still well below what I would've liked (RV770 / 4850) but with twice the processing, graphical, bandwidth and RAM than Xbox 360, we could see some amazing games on Wii U by EAD Tokyo and Retro.
bgassassin
Regular
Don't take anything from it. Apparently the writer is virutally saying the 2x he was told by a developer in December is equal to the 5x IGN is reporting.
Bagel seed
Veteran
A stopgap measure may just be exactly MS's plan. Although of course they would never admit it, but technology wise it would be. If the specs are true it's definitely an interesting strategy.
Basically, get a mildly higher spec'd Xbox 3a out there to take on Wii U, expand their Kinect casual market, and probably offer more online connectivity features at a breakeven or small profit at launch. Then 4-5 years later in 2017, launch the true Xbox successor with all of the above plus a significant spec bump on matured processes. It kind of singles out Sony, and I'm thinking they're betting on the chance that any advantage of Sony bringing out a more powerful box in 2014 would be marginalized. In any case they'd still be raking in profits with at-cost, low spec reliable hardware. And if PS4 does sway things back in Sony's direction, Xbox 4 in 2017 would hamper that imo.
MS is having identity issues.
Yep, Releasing an underpowered console compared to what Sony will more then likely release is suicide and all the die hard casuals that are waiting and crying out for faster hardware could move right to Sony and leave Microsoft with a much lower user base.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Die hard casual is an oxymoron isn't it?
I think they just want to keep the ball rolling with a 2013 release and betting on their loyal fanbase to upgrade. As long as their users are hooked on Live it gives them a bit of cushion. People won't jump ship from them as easily because of that.
But if PS4 can be substantially more powerful than it, and 3rd parties can be swayed...
You'll have that later this year. It'll be called an xbox360SS (superslim)
Seriously a bit of understanding for how electronics and heat dissipation would be great. If you want more/better from the games of the future, it will require bigger chips which inevitably run hotter than the same old/existing chipset at the newest manufacture process.
That doesn't mean it has to be loud, huge, and ugly ... but it will be bigger than what would be possible by shrinking the current old hardware down to 28nm and throwing it in as small a box as possible.
There's no magic here. That's the reason Wii looked so wonderfully slim and quiet in comparison to real nextgen systems. It was in fact, a last gen system, thrown in a new smaller box.
YOU might be happy with such a concept, but I think the majority of gamers would prefer the term NEXTGEN to actually mean what it says.
Otherwise, just go ahead and buy the superslim 2005 tech xbox360 and be done.
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They could very well adopt an Apple strategy here...
Ms could say offer a biennial updated console (enough time to ensure process shrinks available to support ~2x increased hardware for the same msrp)
Increase the ram, along with the rest of the guts and ensuring that software is forward compatible, games would take advantage of the increased spec in some way or another to encourage adoption of the new console, while still being compatible with the original model.
This means MS could afford to be less aggressive on selling for a significant loss as they do now, while at the same time, never being fully outclassed by any competing hardware. This would also mean the MSRP out the gate wouldn't have to be astronomical either.
OR, they could adopt this approach right out the gate and have a true "Core" unit, and a true Premium/Elite unit as the other multi-sku rumor suggested.
Such an arrangement would put a lot less pressure on end-of-life console production hardware and software and the same for "NG launch" hardware and software.
If a consumer is feeling the console is getting a bit long in the tooth and would like to see an "upgrade", they can simply buy the next version. Or if they're happy with having 7 year old hardware *ahem* they can still game on the ancient console!
I'd love to see some variation of this. Either with the console directly, or with a PC-centric core standard. Preferably with the console as PC gaming in general is a headache.
Of course, such a concept would mean "scaling the hardware" ... and we know how some around here don't like that idea ...
This is the tech predicition thread, not the business strategy thread...
Scaling the hardware is a legitimate strategy. It's just not the only one, nor the only one that makes sense, and it comes at a sacrifice versus the efficient performance of clean-slate hardware. See the likes of ERP talking about how well x86 can perform - ditching PPC and going with x86 has advantages and disadvantages.Of course, such a concept would mean "scaling the hardware" ... and we know how some around here don't like that idea ...
The rumours so far certainly sound like a 360 compatible box, but I take them to be 360+, and not XB3.
Let me ask a question related to this next Xbox rumor. Suppose the 6670 is your starting point, it's a 716M transistor chip, clocked 800MHz with 480 shaders, 24 TMU's, and 8 ROPs. It's based on the VLIW5 architecture.
How would you modify/customize this part to in order to provide a good upgrade for the next gen? (Without saving just use a 6850 or higher)
My guess is that the silicon budget for the GPU is around 800-1000M transistors (in a hypothetical 1.5B transistor SoC) so that would limit the shader count to the ball park of the 6670 and I would guess the clock limits would be similar as well.
Do you think it's a good idea to stay with a VLIW5 architecture? Does going to VLIW4 or GCN shaders buy anything in terms of performance, specifically, for a gaming console (ie 5 VLIW5 vs ~ 7-8 VLIW4 vs ~7-8 GCN CU's?
How would you modify/customize this part to in order to provide a good upgrade for the next gen? (Without saving just use a 6850 or higher)
My guess is that the silicon budget for the GPU is around 800-1000M transistors (in a hypothetical 1.5B transistor SoC) so that would limit the shader count to the ball park of the 6670 and I would guess the clock limits would be similar as well.
Do you think it's a good idea to stay with a VLIW5 architecture? Does going to VLIW4 or GCN shaders buy anything in terms of performance, specifically, for a gaming console (ie 5 VLIW5 vs ~ 7-8 VLIW4 vs ~7-8 GCN CU's?
D
Deleted member 13524
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We have that.
It's called "Personal Computer".
All you'd need to make PC equal to that business strategy you're talking is for every game to bundle a standardized and efficient "dumb mode" for system config, like Rage's.
For example, detecting the proper resolution, or at least the screen ratio (I just panic everytime I see a friend playing a 4:3 stretched game on a 16:9 screen), then running a mini-benchmark to determine quality options.
As for the latest X720 rumours, I think most of us agree that a HD6670-esque GPU wouldn't make it a "next-gen" console.
Maybe it could be just a X360 Super-Slim model with an updated GPU that simply renders all X360 games at 1080p (+4xMSAA +FXAA?) and also brings some more/faster system memory.
Developers could make future games with a special path and assets (higher resolution textures, tesselation) that take advantage of the newer hardware, but 100% compatibility with the old console would be mandatory.
Though this is a less-than-ideal solution, Microsoft would gain parity with Wii U's visuals and boost hardware sales for another 2 years, until the real next-gen console comes out. Also, they'd get the 10-year "lifecycle" they initially projected.
This is actually really close to TheChefO's proposition, but it's more of a "one-time extension" for the hardware than a continuous business model.
It simply won't work without (illegal) collusion ... either both do it, or the one who does it will have to compete with Nintendo for Nintendo's market and lose half the customers who bought their last console in the first year.
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