Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

[Jubei]

I think MS is perfectly content to have you in their ecosystem regardless if its XB1, Scorpio or Windows 10, from their perspective I think that is the point. That said you raise a good question about Live, although Steam makes a truck load of money so perhaps Live migrates more to that sort of a business model. From a monetization stand point selling digital versions of games probably has a higher ceiling than many other services you could provide.

Thats why i think they are taking the bigger risk here. They are not only going up against Sony on the console side but up against Steam on PC. Lets just assume that i do buy Halo and GOW on MS store, but what incentive do i have to buy GTA 7 on their store instead of Steam? because i can also play it on Scorpio? I dont think many people would buy a 400+ dollar console if they already have the game on their PC. Playstation users have no other choice than paying for PSN and using Sonys online service, PC users have multiple choices and are unlikely to be locked in, i can buy Halo on MS store but if Steam offers me a better deal then i will buy third party titles there.

Maybe MS strategy will work out very well for them in the long run. But they have a bigger uphill battle compared to Sony maybe losing some sales because of a better performing rival console

 

[Jay]

Is there a crossover between console gamers and PC yes definitely, but there is also distinct markets also, console gamers that will not buy pc, or prefer playing on console.
It can be for many reasons, some real, some perceived, other just plain wrong. But in the end they don't won't to play on PC, and MS are giving them the option to continue to play on console, at close to 'mid/high end' PC on Scorpio.

What they have to do is make their ecosystem (win10 store) compelling, and that's just not there yet, but they seem to be working on it.

People can upgrade their pc's every 2-3 years, or upgrade console 3-4.
Whilst consoles are still target platforms the quality of the games should hold up.

Not particularly disagreeing, just saying I don't think people will automatically run out and buy pc's.

 

[Gubbi]

Not all games play equally well on console or PC. I'll never play racing games on PC, never play FPS multiplayer on console.

I'll play slow paced RPGs on both, though I prefer playing them on console; Got Oblivion for the 360, Fallout 3 for PC, Skyrim for PC and Fallout 4 for XB1. Got the PC versions because the PC hardware was far better than the 360 at the time. However, I enjoyed the console experience of these games much more than the PC versions.

I'd pick the console that allows me to play the same games as my PC. That way I don't have to choose which version to get. If XBox Play Anywhere takes off, it's a no brainer for me.

Cheers

 

[MrFox]

If he had just said something like, "Project Scorpio specs sound very impressive, but I'd caution everyone to wait until we've shown you what we've got before making any speculative comparisons", it would have sounded more believable. But when he laughed it just sounded disingenuous.

But then again, we should all know Sony by now, they would have never been gracious. When they have the clear advantage they shout it from the rooftops, they make Xbox jokes or start trumpeting the differences. They've never had a problem in the past sticking it to Microsoft, they would be hitting them with sharp digs. But this time it just sounds like false bravado.

*But if they can laugh an additional 2 TFLPS of performance out of the Neo then more power to them.

Maybe you should watch the whole segment because that was his first answer.

The journalist used a fallacy to force him to confirm or deny the specs and get a scoop: How will sony deal with the fact that Neo has 2TF less power than Scorpio?

He gave the only neutral answer possible: He corrects it's not a fact it's a rumor, not falling into the trap of ignoring the fallacious question (which people would interpret as an implicit confirmation by not correcting it), and he said they are not ready to unveil the specs yet. Move on.

Then the journalist doubled down instead of backing off: "But... uh... let's suppose it's true, what then?"

Let's suppose it's true? WTF? He laughed. The journalist laughed. He laughed more. Interpret it the way you want, but I'm interpreting it as a "Nice try, I'm not telling you shit".

Considering the only piece of information people are clinging to is "well he laughed", that was the least damage he could do. He avoided both confirming and denying rumors, despite the fishing attempt. You can equally deduce it's true or it's not. Some people say he laughed because it's false, others say it indicates specs are as rumored and he had no answer.

If their advantages are price, date, and games, at the cost of slightly lower specs, it's not a surprise MS announced partial specs, and no price, no date, no console, no games. It's also not a surprise Sony can't announce the console until they can tell us the price, the date, and show some games, because the moment they provide the negative they must show the positive.

I'm still expecting 4.2TF, soon, low price, and the unveiling will have to focus on first parties.


Here's the fallacy, the tabloid technique:
Q : Does the fact that your husband is a murderer make you angry at him?
- "No"
- "Yes"
- "Go fuck yourself"
- "These allegations are false"
- "I still love my husband"
- "It's not a fact, there is an ongoing investigation" *laugh* *laugh more*

Okay, I admit, maybe laughing here is not a good idea.

 

[AlNom]

or

 

[Jubei]

Not particularly disagreeing, just saying I don't think people will automatically run out and buy pc's.

Well we have never been in this situation before. We dont know the price of Scorpio, best case scenario is 399 $ and worst case scenario over 600 $

Now we have had expensive consoles in the past but this will be the first time that the console could be expensive AND wont have any console exclusive games.

ofc everyone wont run out and buy a PC, they require more knowledge to use. But at the same time the core demographics for a Scorpio is either a loyal Xbox fan or someone who wants the best performance on multiplat titles but want to play them on console only. We know from the previous generation that cheaper price and superior multiplat titles was still not enough to get a large lead over Sony.

 

[Jay]

Now we have had expensive consoles in the past but this will be the first time that the console could be expensive AND wont have any console exclusive games.

your right not been in this situation. So maybe there's pc gamers who would think, pc like performance, console like experience, think I'll go back/to console gaming, and my exclusives will still be compatible.
there are gamers who went pc due to length of prev gen, and the power of current gen.

we don't know how much the movement either way will of set the other.

the point is, this definitely does not mean the end of Ms consoles in the foreseeable future. And may actually be good for it

 

[MrFox]

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or

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[milk]

Maybe you should watch the whole segment because that was his first answer.

The journalist used a fallacy to force him to confirm or deny the specs and get a scoop: How will sony deal with the fact that Neo has 2TF less power than Scorpio?

He gave the only neutral answer possible: He corrects it's not a fact it's a rumor, not falling into the trap of ignoring the fallacious question (which people would interpret as an implicit confirmation by not correcting it), and he said they are not ready to unveil the specs yet. Move on.

Then the journalist doubled down instead of backing off: "But... uh... let's suppose it's true, what then?"

Let's suppose it's true? WTF? He laughed. The journalist laughed. He laughed more. Interpret it the way you want, but I'm interpreting it as a "Nice try, I'm not telling you shit".

Wow, thanks for your recap of the interview. I had only heard from second hand about this whole laughing matter, and even though I had already dismissed it as wild speculation out of nothing, never would I have imagined it was THIS wild and THIS out of nothing. Your interpretation of this is absolutely the only sane one. The lengths some kids go (and more depressingly, "journalists") to find new "facts" and "confirmations" is borderline pathological.

 

[eastmen]

If Sony can launch a much more expensive console (but not better specs) a year after Microsoft and still end up in a tie with them in the end then i dont think they are trembling in fear over Scorpio. Digital gaming libraries makes it harder to switch between consoles now and they have their strong first party titles. They only care that Neo makes them more money

Microsoft is taking by far the bigger gamble here. Im getting a 1070 (once the prices become reasonable) why should i buy a Scorpio if all the xbox titles are available on PC? MS still makes money either way? Sure they will make money from the games i buy but how will they make me pay for an Xbox live subscription? Why should i buy a third party title on their store when i have like 60 games on Steam already and im satisfied with their service?

Sonys only gamble is the iterative console, otherwise they are still making a traditional console with games that can only be played on their hardware

For Sony its not just a more powerful console. Its also a more powerful console + psvr and if we believe them then a PS5 is coming around the corner too.


Anyway , I am a big pc gamer and I love it. But you can look at my gf. She loves civ but her pc is years old , she doesn't want to drop $450 on a 1070 or $600 on a 1080. We are going to get her a RX 480 to replace her r 6950 (which was mine at one point) . For her , she loves to play on the xbox one , she plays garden war fare 2 a ton , she also just got into star wars battle front.

Take my nephew . He is 7 and just starting to get into real gaming. He isn't going game on a desktop pc, he sits on the couch in his parents den and plays on his xbox one .

Then I have a cousin who has an xbox one and a decent pc (radeon 7850) but he still does 90% of his gaming on his console.


We would all love to play with each other , my cousin wants me to build him a new pc next year. So he will play on pc , but his gf will use his xbox one , my gf on her xbox one and my nephew on his xbox one with me along on my pc. We will all be playing Sea of Theives together.

That is the magic of what MS is doing. You can play with any set up you want.


Yes sony has some exclusive games that are popular. But even if MS sells 40 or 50m Scorpios their first party developers will have an even larger platform to target so we can see MS expand their development. Even 3rd parties will be happy since they can target Scorpio and expand upwards for pc gaming and a 6Tflop card from AMD is right around the corner at the $300 price mark at this point .

They wont sell you an xbox live subscription. Not now but at some point they may be able to offer free games for the pc with subscriptions. But that isn't the point. The reason your going to get third party game on the ms store instead of steam is so that you can play them with your xbox live friend s who may have scorpio or an xbox one. They want you to build that friend list and expand on it and stay in their eco system.

I have a 122 games right now on steam. I have 14 on Origin and 32 on GOG. my steam friend list is only 14 people. My xbox live friends list is at 43 right now. These are mostly people I know in real life and people who are on multiple times a day. The steam friends are random people that I've palyed different games with , some I haven't played with in years.


Sony has some good looking exclusies coming out in the next few years. But if neo is 4.4tflops or 5.5 and the xbox scorpio is 6 + tflops then multiplatform games will perform better. If its noticeable enough then consumers will buy that system. They will be part of xbox live which makes my enjoyment on my pc or my xbox one / scorpio that much better.

 

[MrFox]

Anecdotes like this are statistical aberrations.

You claim again that a power advantage will make gamers switch platform... Did your family switch to PS4? Did you buy a PS4 because it was more powerful?

 

[Transponster]

But even if MS sells 40 or 50m Scorpios.

Even? As opposed to 80 or 100 million? ROFL.
No, unless MS changes its tactics again, their best bet is to sell most of whatever X1 ends up doing LT, and that's not even taking into account that Scorpio may exist for only 3-4 years(unlike X1's inevitable 7+).

The whole post is a case of "I and everyone i know voted for politician B, but he didn't even come close to winning, how's that?".

 

[temesgen]

as an aside IMO the notion that Scorpio moves 40 to 50 million units isn't likely, same with NEO. I'd be shocked if either move more than 20 to 25 million.

 

[eastmen]

Even? As opposed to 80 or 100 million? ROFL.
No, unless MS changes its tactics again, their best bet is to sell most of whatever X1 ends up doing LT, and that's not even taking into account that Scorpio may exist for only 3-4 years(unlike X1's inevitable 7+).

The whole post is a case of "I and everyone i know voted for politician B, but he didn't even come close to winning, how's that?".

I'm not sure what your saying here. Is the ps3 a complete failure because it sold 80m instead of 150m units of the ps2 ?

Is the ps4 going to be a failure because it wont sell 80m units before they enhanced it with neo ? Or that it wont sell a 150m ?


MS wants to make money. If they are making money on hardware and software then what does it matter how many they sell ? The xbox 360 sold 80m units over 10 years . The xbox one wont sell that because it wont exist for 10 years. If scorpio exists for 4 years and sells 40 or 50m I would consider that a success , esp if they can make profits on the hardware quickly after and make money on software.

 

[bunge]

The xbox 360 sold 80m units over 10 years . The xbox one wont sell that because it wont exist for 10 years.

The Xbox One won't sell that because it's an underperforming product. It wouldn't sell that if it lasted in the market for 20 years or more.

 

[eastmen]

The Xbox One won't sell that because it's an underperforming product. It wouldn't sell that if it lasted in the market for 20 years or more.

So like I said , the ps4 will be an under performing product because it will never sell a 150m units like the ps2 did.

Its already getting a replacement in the ps4 Neo and after that a PS5.

Don't see the point of the comment ? The ps2 existed at a different time and market conditions. Just like the xbox one exists at a different time and market conditions than the xbox 360. Scorpio will be an even bigger change than the xbox one or 360 generation. comparing them wont work. If MS can sell 10s of millions of Scorpio its not a problem.

Also we haven't seen the full path of Xbox one family. I truly believe they will get it down to Compute Stick levels.

 

[bunge]

So like I said , the ps4 will be an under performing product because it will never sell a 150m units like the ps2 did.

Its already getting a replacement in the ps4 Neo and after that a PS5.

Don't see the point of the comment ? The ps2 existed at a different time and market conditions. Just like the xbox one exists at a different time and market conditions than the xbox 360. Scorpio will be an even bigger change than the xbox one or 360 generation. comparing them wont work. If MS can sell 10s of millions of Scorpio its not a problem.

Also we haven't seen the full path of Xbox one family. I truly believe they will get it down to Compute Stick levels.

Why are you perseveration on Scorpio in a PS4/NEO thread?

PS4 is already over performing. What evidence do you have that a PS5 is "around the corner"?

 

[Transponster]

I'm not sure what your saying here. Is the ps3 a complete failure because it sold 80m instead of 150m units of the ps2 ?

Is the ps4 going to be a failure because it wont sell 80m units before they enhanced it with neo ? Or that it wont sell a 150m ?

What were you saying? That's not clear. How does the *failure talk* come into this? I was just talking about realistic expectations regarding Scorpio's sales(that's whole another topic, really, and there's a lot of thing to consider).

MS wants to make money. If they are making money on hardware and software then what does it matter how many they sell ?

Well, if they want to make money on hardware, then they need to include R&D costs in the price(hello $599), that's not what 90%+ of console audience is looking for.

So like I said , the ps4 will be an under performing product because it will never sell a 150m units like the ps2 did.

Never? It's going for ~120m right now, but the potential(tiny possibility) for making 160m(i know, crazy) is still there, it depends a lot on whether or not Sony wants that figure, VR and Neo performance, when exactly PS5 releases, will it cost 399 or 499 dollars, etc.

Its already getting a replacement in the ps4 Neo and after that a PS5.

New PS4 is not replacement for PS4, and still is a PS4, as far as we know.

 

[eastmen]

Anecdotes like this are statistical aberrations.

You claim again that a power advantage will make gamers switch platform... Did your family switch to PS4? Did you buy a PS4 because it was more powerful?

Well right now it hasn't started because the functionality hasn't been there. So I'd agree. But going forward I wont agree. The further we move into the future the easier and cheaper pc hardware will get that can perform similarly or better than the xbox one. The xbox one will also get cheaper allowing for more people. What is a statistical aberration will only grow as more popular games are released and both windows store gamers and xbox one gamers grow.

As for the power advantage , it didn't effect me because of the size of my friend list and that most of it is family and we all wanted to play each other. But I know a few people who did not own ps3s but owned an xbox 360 that now own a ps4 only or both a ps4 and xbox one. Those that own both play exclusives on the one but multiplatforms on the ps4.

I see those jumping back to Scorpio if its the best place to play multiplatforms.

 

[goonergaz]

As for the power advantage , it didn't effect me because of the size of my friend list and that most of it is family and we all wanted to play each other. But I know a few people who did not own ps3s but owned an xbox 360 that now own a ps4 only or both a ps4 and xbox one. Those that own both play exclusives on the one but multiplatforms on the ps4.

I see those jumping back to Scorpio if its the best place to play multiplatforms.

The problem this gen in that you're far more attached to a brand than last gen - digital libraries are ever growing and of course both subs give free games. Essentially people switching last gen probably didn't lose much but switching mid gen would lose a stack of games. And those with both machines can still pick and choose - it's a small market and they will likely buy both anyway so....