Possibilities for DS3

[NANOTEC]

Why are you so stuck up on flying?! What about all the other uses where deft control aren't needed?

Ignoring that, it seems your reservations about the usefulness of DS3's tilt controlling is that you have delayed input or control lag...
I'd like to know why you think there's going to be a problem. Why can't a modern gyro-on-a-chip or other MEMS solution provide instant feedback that's useable in a controller? It works in robots. I also thought this tech was in use in Wiimote and works there. I don't know what you mean by DPD in the Wiimote. What is that and how does that add accuracy and elliminate lag in a way DS3 can't use?

I'm only discussing flying because that was what SONY demonstrated. The demonstration raising more question for than it answers since I have past experience with gyro controllers with similar types of games.

As to the Wiimote, the Direct Pointing Device has something on the front of it and it's not a gyro. This leads me to belive that the gyro(s) inside are used as support function which is not timing critical. For example rotating a pistol is not timing critical. Aiming OTOH is timing critical which I believe uses the DPD "eye". Also since it uses a sensor bar that might have some addition precision benefit.

 

[Acert93]

I guess one possibility with the DS3 in a game like GT5 is to keep the same control scheme for the car itself. But use the 6DOF to move the drivers POV around.

Interesting idea, I hope a dev at least tries it out. I know I hold my controller in my lap, so I would need only an X/Y plane rotation and it would be slightly odd to get familiar with BUT the subtle ability to look around would be pretty cool. Add in the PGR3 bumpy road/inertia cabin view and you have a really interactice experience.

 

[MasaC]

Phil Harrison said the new controller had "six degrees of freedom". A little lookup on google gave me this explanation what "N degrees of freedom" is (it's a maths/physics term):

"It's a math/physics term. "N degrees of freedom" means a situation
requires N numbers to identify exactly what condition it is in.

For example, if you just want to identify the location of a point in
our three-dimensional space, you need three coordinates. The
interesting thing is that, in a sense, you need three coordinates no
matter what coordinate system you use. For example, in standard
Cartesian coordinates you need the x, y, and z coordinates. In
spherical coordinates you need a radius, an azimuth, and an altitude.
In cylindrical coordinates, you need an angle, a radius, and a
z-coordinate, etc. If you want to identify the location and time of an
event, there are four degrees of freedom: three for the location and
one for the time.

If you want to identify the location of an object on a two-dimensional
surface (even a curved one), you essentially need two numbers: imagine
a curvy grid over the surface for coordinates.

If you want to identify an airplane's location and orientation, that
has six degrees of freedom. Three to get the coordinates of the center
of the plane, and three for roll, pitch, and yaw."

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/61815.html

Look at that last paragraph again. Sounds familiar to the warhawk demo?

To me the new controller doesn't seem to have just a tilt-function. That is to simplify it.

I can't get over this idea with the motion sensor to be used in first person shooters or even in third person shooters. If you can yaw. pitch and have sideways motion - couldn't you control a target sight on screen like with a mouse?

http://www.simlabs.arc.nasa.gov/vms/six_degrees.html

 

[patsu]

I'm only discussing flying because that was what SONY demonstrated.

Watching the Nintendo Press Conference, one of the kids controls a plane with Wii also (like a toy plane).

 

[NANOTEC]

Watching the Nintendo Press Conference, one of the kids controls a plane with Wii also (like a toy plane).

Yes a "free flying" game..

 

[Chandler]

I agree that the sensitivity might not be as great as people hope the DS3 will be. But if it was......it can do like 90% of the things the Wii wants to do. But agian, it probably wont be super sensitive.

 

[RobertR1]

I'll miss the rumble though, I think a game like Gran Turismo will loose a lot because of it. While there's been few games the rumble really added much, it was a nice feature when implemented right.

That's exactly the issue. racing games have been my favorite for consoles and rumble (done right) makes it an absolute blast. I'm hoping they release a controller without the tilt but with rumble at some point. That would have me sold

 

[rabidrabbit]

What's a "free flying game", opposite of an on-trails flying game??
I just don't see there being such a big problem for a precise control in a Warhawk style dogfighting game with the PS3 gyro controller.

I'm sure if it's lagfree, it's as precise, or even more so, than the analog sticks.
Of course, the preciseness isn't everything that makes it a good control method, like a mouse, which is precise can suck in flying games.

In that demo, the final landing on the pad looked difficult, that is probably because the control in a gyro device is "constant" and more "analog", not as in a joystick where it is more like "steering from a path" (I know I explain this badly but I hope it gets through).

The gyro control sure needs some getting used to, and a bit of learning, but I wouldn't be surprised once got accustomed to it's so much more better than joystic control in many games. That of course might put off the casual players from other than just trying the gyro fnction for fun, and reverting back to the old style analog sticks, but for those willing to preserve it might reap rewards.

Can't wait to get my hands on it.

 

[rabidrabbit]

That's exactly the issue. racing games have been my favorite for consoles and rumble (done right) makes it an absolute blast. I'm hoping they release a controller without the tilt but with rumble at some point. That would have me sold

True, in some games, like Burnout, the rumble actually added to the ssense of speed.
There's always the option of a force feedback steering wheel, which I personally will use anyway with more serious racers like GT, but in arcade rracers the rumble has been a nice additional feature.
Hope the 60fps and great graphics will compensate and give a good sense of speed without the rumble. And I will sure turn up my subwoofer and maybe buy that butt shaker

 

[patsu]

I am one of the folks who support Nintendo's controller innovation since the beginning. I support Sony's too. I do not think both are gimmicky (Although the dual screen in DS is gimmicky, but the touch screen and voice input is great !). So far we have positive reviews of the new controller with just 1 game. I'm sure more can be done as long as it's responsive.

EDIT: Before I forget, the EyeToy card game is great too ! It's just like the Yu-Gi-Oh manga

 

[NANOTEC]

A "free flying" game is a game where you're not doing anything critical like dogfights. You just fly which doesn't take high precision. Spray painting a wall with garbage is "free painting". Painting a portrait is not.

 

[rabidrabbit]

ookay, so for a dogfight game you still have the analog sticks, there shouldn't be a problem. Gyro for the games that don't require pixel perfect stability, and analog sticks for games that need it.

 

[McDusty]

well, im disappointed.

Never did like the Dualshock. I always felt the analog sticks were in ackward places and that they were just cheaplly squeezed in when they hurrying to copy the N64 pad. Other pads ... N64, Dreamcast, xbox ... place the left analog stick higher up, allowing u to move your thumb in a more natural way. ie ... moving thumb up = up, left = left, etc. On the dualshock it isn't so natural.

Would have hoped they could come up something new that is designed around the analog sticks and any new features ( which turns out to be the gyro) but they haven't ... *sighs* .... maybe PS4 will change things

 

[Kutu-jiao]

It's not the end for rumble technology yet.Sony may have another wireless device to complement the DS3.It may be in the form of a wriststrap,a watch or a glove which has better a rumble technology compared to those incorporated into game controllers.

Nintendo Wii's controller was able to retain the rumble technology in addition to the new motion sensing capability was because it consisted of 2 components which are the remote and the analog pad.Like what Sony had claimed you can't put the two technology into the same controller because the vibration effect may intefere with the tilt functionality.

 

[NANOTEC]

It's not the end for rumble technology yet.Sony may have another wireless device to complement the DS3.It may be in the form of a wriststrap,a watch or a glove which has better a rumble technology compared to those incorporated into game controllers.

Nintendo Wii's controller was able to retain the rumble technology in addition to the new motion sensing capability was because it consisted of 2 components which are the remote and the analog pad.Like what Sony had claimed you can't put the two technology into the same controller because the vibration effect may intefere with the tilt functionality.

The Wii wand has a built-in rumble, speaker, battery, mic, position sensor, etc. It has not affect on the postioning capability.

The nunchuck has positiion sensor.

 

[Sis]

It's silly to think every game would use all the six axis, in a racing game it would likely be more natural to simulate braking and accelerating with the triggers.
Why should every game use every function of a controller so it wouldn't no longer be considered a gimmick, is beyond me.

So you're ok with removing a feature that was widely used by almost all games and replace with one that will have little-to-no use in most games?

I'd be perfectly happy with this new feature, because I agree that it has potential, but I do not think losing the rumble feature was an even trade off.

 

[patsu]

They will probably bundle the new DS with PSTwo too right ? to avoid the patent. Let's see some late stage support

 

[Kutu-jiao]

The Wii wand has a built-in rumble, speaker, battery, mic, position sensor, etc. It has not affect on the postioning capability.

The nunchuck has positiion sensor.

The addition of rumble tech into the DS3 was out of question for Sony because they've lost the patent rights to do so.Not that they didn't want to throw it in.

Come to think of it the DS3 could retain the feel of playing older PS games while employing new features which the PS3 games could take advantage of.Great idea.

 

[cthellis42]

While I've enjoyed rumble, games have had two generations to improve upon it or at the very least use it well, and yet... It overall amounts to very little. When I can seamlessly move between wired GCN controller and Wavebird and not notice any real difference in any games...

About the only games which I've really enjoyed it in are a few survival-horror games that use it well (as they have many more slow and silent bits where you can really notice it, and use it to speed up your "heartbeat" and heighten the tension). I'll also miss it in Burnout.

But seriously... it doesn't seem that big a deal. I can see a LOT more applications for motion-sensing all around, so I'd rather give that a shot (and with it in the PS3 we'll see a lot more 3rd parties picking up on it, I imagine) and see where the innovation takes us, as controller rumble seems to have gone stagnant.

 

[NANOTEC]

Rumble can be very useful for racing games and fighting games and sports.