Possibilities for DS3
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What?! Huh?!NANOTEC said:
DS3 has 7 analogue DOF readily accessible. 9 if you count shoulder buttons. The MS effort (freestyle) had 2, maybe 4, not sure. Wii has 6 I think, pitch, yaw, roll and X,Y,Z positioning.Is DS3 a Wiimote replacement? No, it's a different design with different strengths. Will it do as well as Wiimote at a Tennis simulator? Nope. Will it do a better job of providing gamer interaction on arcade games like hack-n-slash or footy? Sure thing! Will it let you control a plane by rotating the controller and also control targetting of weapons with the L and R sticks? Absolutely
As for accuracy, as I pointed out already, if Wiimote can do it, so can DS3. They're both using internal MEMS tech to get the pitch, yaw and roll values. There's no reason yet to think DS3 will be worse in that respect. We don't know how either has implemented it and haven't software to test and compare.
Now quit the comparisons and revert to talk about how the addition of 3 analogue inputs, tied to intuitive/natural motions, can contribute to PS3 games or not.
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NANOTEC said:
Err... to you it may be a gimmick, to me it may be a life saver. I have avoided racing games like a plague because I can't seem to corner very well, and I can't get my cars to drift like a pro (Call me an idiot/noob if you want). So anything simple to help me get into the game is a plus. I certainly think that it's easier than the buttons.
inefficient
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rabidrabbit said:
I've always wanted to be able to control the in car cock pit view while racing at the same time. These never seemed to be a really natural way to simulate the driver moving his head around looking left to right with last gen controlers.
I guess one possibility with the DS3 in a game like GT5 is to keep the same control scheme for the car itself. But use the 6DOF to move the drivers POV around.
A fight/space-combat type game could employ this idea as well.
That's a good idea. I really think camera control is where this wil be best and most natural in most games, and of course as gimmicky games too.inefficient said:
Shifty Geezer said:What?! Huh?!
Is DS3 a Wiimote replacement? No, it's a different design with different strengths. Will it do as well as Wiimote at a Tennis simulator? Nope. Will it do a better job of providing gamer interaction on arcade games like hack-n-slash or footy? Sure thing! Will it let you control a plane by rotating the controller and also control targetting of weapons with the L and R sticks? Absolutely
As for accuracy, as I pointed out already, if Wiimote can do it, so can DS3. They're both using internal MEMS tech to get the pitch, yaw and roll values. There's no reason yet to think DS3 will be worse in that respect. We don't know how either has implemented it and haven't software to test and compare.
Now quit the comparisons and revert to talk about how the addition of 3 analogue inputs, tied to intuitive/natural motions, can contribute to PS3 games or not.
You start by making a DS3 vs Wiimote comparison then you tell me to stop the comparison when I did not?
How about you showing me how you'll dogfight instead of mindless airial manuevers? Again you don't seem to understand what's being dicussed. We're not talking about the regular controls like the analog sticks, buttons. We're talking about the tilt function only and how useful it is beyond just gimmicks.
patsu said:
Well since neither one of us has tried the DS3 on driviing games, it's kind pointless to say if it works well or not. I at least have some experience wth gyro controller used with real games.
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NANOTEC, I'm trying to "feel" your argument. I'm getting the sense that your main objections are:
* Delayed input
* Too jittery (?) because you need precision to aim and shoot (in a dog fight)
I'm speculating that the controller movement probably needs to pass through some wickedly fast processing to moderate the tilt feedback (so it won't be jittery). Current advances in Science (teh Cell) may be able to cover both grounds above to give a better experiences (?).
I actually have a free ticket to E3. Don't make me drive 6 hours down to LA to try Warhawk out and report to you personally.
* Delayed input
* Too jittery (?) because you need precision to aim and shoot (in a dog fight)
I'm speculating that the controller movement probably needs to pass through some wickedly fast processing to moderate the tilt feedback (so it won't be jittery). Current advances in Science (teh Cell) may be able to cover both grounds above to give a better experiences (?).
I actually have a free ticket to E3. Don't make me drive 6 hours down to LA to try Warhawk out and report to you personally.
Leaning forward could put the driver on the bike into a "dive" position, and leaning back could result into standing up straighter, jolting the controller back quickly could result into a wheelie. Who knows. I think the gyro could definately make those impossible airplane/rc missions in GTA alot more bearable.NANOTEC said:
Me personally, im alot more impressed with the psp being as a 2nd display for the ps3 in f1. Am I the only one who thought that was cool as hell? I hear you can also use more than 1 psp.
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patsu said:NANOTEC, I'm trying to "feel" your argument. I'm getting the sense that your main objections are:
* Delayed input
* Too jittery (?) because you need precision to aim and shoot (in a dog fight)
I'm speculating that the controller movement probably needs to pass through some wickedly fast processing to moderate the tilt feedback (so it won't be jittery). Current advances in Science (teh Cell) may be able to cover both grounds above to give a better experiences (?).
I actually have a free ticket to E3. Don't make me drive 6 hours down to LA to try Warhawk out and report to you personally.
Yes from my experience the controller has to give instant onscreen response to be of any use beyond just gimicks. From the video of Warhawk, it seems there's a noticable delay and major movement of the controller to get any response onscreen.
If you say so.NANOTEC said:
And plenty of people have suggested idea where it can be used in games, none of which you have commented on because all you want to talk about is how useless it is for flying games, despite first-hand impressions saying it's working well. Even if it doesn't work well for flying games, and these reports on Warhawk are all just confused and don't know what fluid and easy control is, doesn't take away from the possibilties of other functions like camera control on top of movement and aiming on sticks.
Given first-hand accounts that it works well, I'd be inclined to think any lag you see on screen is a matter of video feed from the camera. Why do you think DS3 will suffer terrible delays on the tilt sensitivity? As I've said before, if Wiimote can manage it, why can't DS3? Modern MEMS tech can be very accurate and sensitive.
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Shifty Geezer said:
Working well for what? Mindless manuevers? Mindlless manuevers can be achieved with a trackball. It would be fun for 10 minutes. Again you are hoping it will be this flawless gyro technology based on faith? At least my argument is based on past experience. SONY's implementat might work and it might not. If it works it still needs a compelling impdlementation. So far I only see flight simulators and games like Locoroco. These are very niche segments. To move beyond the realm of gimmick, there's gotta be more uses for it. We need to wait for more independent hands on detailed tests.
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So you think Wiimote will also have terrible problems with control? I was under the impression you thought that would be a successful control device.NANOTEC said:
Shifty Geezer said:
We've discussed the Wiimote at length before. I don't feel it needs to be injected into this thread.
patsu said:
Yeah see if the response is instantaneous AND continuous throughout the entire motion. For example. If you break to the right does the plane immediately break to the right? Or is there a slight delay? If you break to the right and immediately break to the left is there any delay? Or does it follow through the motions exactly as you're doing them at each point in the movment. Basically test quick motion response. Also does the plane auto center? If you hold the controller at a fixed angle does the plane stay at that angle or does it tend to self center?
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Hang on. If Wiimote can have sensitive tilt control using MEMS, why can't DS3? Why do you assume DS3 will be bad in this area if you don't think the same of Wiimote? Sony have access to the same MEMS techniques.
Why are you so stuck up on flying?!NANOTEC said:
What about all the other uses where deft control aren't needed?Ignoring that, it seems your reservations about the usefulness of DS3's tilt controlling is that you have delayed input or control lag...
I'd like to know why you think there's going to be a problem. Why can't a modern gyro-on-a-chip or other MEMS solution provide instant feedback that's useable in a controller? It works in robots. I also thought this tech was in use in Wiimote and works there. I don't know what you mean by DPD in the Wiimote. What is that and how does that add accuracy and elliminate lag in a way DS3 can't use?NANOTEC said:
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