Possibilities for DS3

[pc999]

From what I saw/read it seems that driving/flying games can be a blast being very intuitive.

Some camera works in eg third person games, should also be very easy.

Things like looking around a corner in a FPS (eg RS5) should also become very pratical.

It will be interesting looking at the potential for menus/weapons selection etc...

Althought besides the first two genres I think it can bring some nice aditions for games but nothing really new (at least for now), what do you think/post your ideas.

 

[Acert93]

It looked very tacked on to me, and if the 2 week comment was accurate this would seem to be a post GDC addition. Watching the game dev leave the aircraft half falling off the edge of the platform rose my eyebrows a bit. I know Nintendo has a licensing deal with a gyroscopic company (Gyration) so this will be interesting to watch pan out. The cynic in me looks at the Immersion lawsuit and wonders, "Did Sony just swap one lawsuit for another?"

As for the implimentation, I think the Wii Wand is more thought out for two reasons. One being that a single handed device is more natural for pointing, tilting, etc. The second is that with a two handed controller you are limited to pretty much just moving the gamepad, which did not appear to intuitive. The Wii Wand has a trigger and a button, two naturally placed inputs, and also has the Numchucks which branches it out to being a nature FPS type device. A lot of the ideas that work for the Wii Wand, like tennis, baseball, golf, sword fighting, etc don't sound like they will work well with a gamepad.

Sony did a great job adding the Analog Sticks to their gamepad. It was a well thought out and VERY effective design. The Rumble was also well done. The initial controller concept was also good in that it had a very effective Dpad, a lot of well placed buttons for the games of its times, and went with handles (nothing new, but well designed) to allow both traditional & trigger based positioning. The only fault I had with it was R2/L2 should have been triggers for us with small hands instead of bumpers (I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Pelican Chamelion PS2 pad!). The DS2 is just a great controller (although I would move the L analog stick to where the Dpad is and do the triggers).

The PS3 controller did not need much evolution. A speaker / Mic would have been nice. But the gyro seems tacked on, and as a gamer I am mildly offended. It seems like a bully move toward Nintendo. I have seen how people mock Nintendo on the forums about being retarded about people copying them, "No one is copying them!" we hear. This seems to be a clear case of such. If Nintendo had waited 3 months to show the Wii Wand I am pretty sure we would not have seen this addition. While Nintendo's seems to be much more robust and thought out, it does seem Sony is making a power play aimed at Nintendo. I like competition, but I like it clean. Hearing the words "innovation" tagged to this reminded me of last years E3. This year: Where is Killzone? And about that "true" HD and dual HDMI and multi ethernet ports, etc. I know it is PR, and SMART PR at that, but as some point it makes me shake my head.

The good news is the DS3 is a great controller w/o the gyro. There was little need to change much to a classic gamepad for todays games.

 

[TrungGap]

I agree with Acert93. The tilt function is just wrong on a dual shock controller. Since both hands must be on the controller, it would feel unnatural to move it around. I have a sense that Sony realized Nintendo is their real competitor, since they're at a much lower price point and offer a simple controller for non-gamers.

Of course, Sony can't just abandon the Dual Shock, it's pretty much what millions of gamers are used to. I think Sony should have made a wand controller just for non-gamers. Add-ons such as EyeToy proves that people are willing to buy different ui input even if the applications are limited.

They should just put back the rumble function and call it done. Though moving one of the analog stick would be ideal but they can't be caught borrowing ideas from MS.

 

[one]

As for the implimentation, I think the Wii Wand is more thought out for two reasons. One being that a single handed device is more natural for pointing, tilting, etc. The second is that with a two handed controller you are limited to pretty much just moving the gamepad, which did not appear to intuitive. The Wii Wand has a trigger and a button, two naturally placed inputs, and also has the Numchucks which branches it out to being a nature FPS type device. A lot of the ideas that work for the Wii Wand, like tennis, baseball, golf, sword fighting, etc don't sound like they will work well with a gamepad.

These guys seem to hold it with 2 hands...:smile:
http://www.e3insider.com/images/?type=screenpax&articleID=2QF45JF4HA
And what prevents you from holding the PS3 controller singlehandedly?

 

[Acert93]

EyeToy on the other hand looks hot, and that Card game was one of the best things at the show. I hope they continue to focus on that development path and leave gyros and wands to Nintendo who have really focused on it.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Anybody know what that clear/jewel circle ps-logo button does on the controller? Does it activate the gyro, or does it bring up a menu?

 

[Sis]

...

I agree with most of what you said in your post. I can't help but feel that Sony is really walking away from the FPS market. The two analog sticks have always been slightly out of place for long periods of FPS gaming. The fact that they remain the same is not a good sign, IMO. The analog triggers seem tacked on--but certainly welcome. But the loss of the rumble feature is almost a deal breaker for me. I need that feedback. It is an important tactile feedback that I think is necessary in the FPS genre.

It seems to me as if Sony is conceding that market to Microsoft--perhaps to drive/encourage more PC developers to the Xbox 360 and doing so furthering the notion that the Xbox 360 gaming library is all about PC ports while the PS3 library is all about unique titles.

 

[patsu]

The tilt could work for FPS also (New movement: dodge/dive to the side *NOW*)

 

[Acert93]

These guys seem to hold it with 2 hands...:smile:
http://www.e3insider.com/images/?type=screenpax&articleID=2QF45JF4HA
And what prevents you from holding the PS3 controller singlehandedly?

And the game looks horrid

Out of all the reviews/feedbacks I have read about the Wii Wand, the games that get the best response are single handed or Wand + Numchuch.

I have thought about "how about using the wand for a steering wheel" type use and it requires a LOT of stability/persistance and spatially focusing not only on how your hands relate, but holding them in a certain fashion. It could work, but it doesn't seem to be the strength of the controller or concept IMO.

Now a little stand for the Wii Wand / PS3 controller that made it a mini-steering wheel, now that could be cool. I guess we will have to see how it plays. But as I mentioned above, there are a lot of limitations to a gamepad with a gyro in relation to movements and button accessibility. And there is also accuracy. I know there are questions of Wii on such which may have a number of gyros and accelerometers, how does the DS3 compare with a much more niché feature? I wasn't too impressed by the WarHawk developer not being able to land his own aircraft in a game.

 

[Sis]

The tilt could work for FPS also (New movement: dodge/dive to the side *NOW*)

Given the way most people play FPS--with a lot of body language--I can't imagine that being useful at all.

 

[Farid]

Sony did a great job adding the Analog Sticks to their gamepad.

No, really.
If they still stick to mechanical and rudimentary potentiometers for the PS3 pad, I can already declare this pad as subpar for FPS.
The friction caused by the movement makes smooth transistion from the zero state to any other state to abrupt.

They need to have a pad like the ones found in the DC/GC/Xbox, if they don't I'll hate it for FPS, just like I hated the DS2 for the rare FPS I played on PS2.

 

[Acert93]

The tilt could work for FPS also (New movement: dodge/dive to the side *NOW*)

True.

Jerk Left / Right = Dive or Roll Left / Right
Jerk Up / Down = Jump / Go Prone

Hold a button and twist/turn the controller to look around corners. There are possible uses. Maybe it will be fine grained enough to do something like this:

Left Analog = Forward/Back/Straif
X/Triangle/O/Square = Action buttons
Gyro = Aim

But we will have to wait and see, but there are oppurtunities here.

 

[Acert93]

No, really.
If they still stick to mechanical and rudimentary potentiometers for the PS3 pad, I can already declare this pad as subpar for FPS.
The friction caused by the movement makes smooth transistion from the zero state to any other state to abrupt.

They need to have a pad like the ones found in the DC/GC/Xbox, if they don't I'll hate it for FPS, just like I hated the DS2 for the rare FPS I played on PS2.

I was not thinking about FPS necessarily, but more inline with the games of the time. What I had in mind is Nintendo did 1 Analogy stick, and Sony found a way to

1) Add 2x Analog sticks (with access to 4 bumpers) while
2) Not compromising the Dpad and buttons for core gaming at the time

I agree that the left analog stick needs to be moved. Heck, I cannot stand gamepads for FPS as it is!

 

[scooby_dooby]

Honestly, I think this whole gyro thing is kinda silly, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, maybe it will result in some really cool extra controls.

If MS had tried something like this they would've got absolutely slammed. Like I said though, I'm totally willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, unlike Wii it's just an add-on, it's not the crux of the entire strategy which suits me better.

 

[patsu]

Given the way most people play FPS--with a lot of body language--I can't imagine that being useful at all.

Hm... depends on how you program it ? How far and abrupt the "swing" is, plus how sensitive the trigger is.

I was also wondering about using the swing action to handle a whip for Wii (Indiana Jones, Soul Caliber's Ivy). With this mechanism, it seems that we can also simulate the same effect using 1 hand.

EDIT: Come to think of it, some of the body movements I made while playing FPS (or Resident Evil) are really what I wanted the character to do (e.g, jump back now, leap). Even though there are buttons to do that, using the new mechanism can be an optional supporting control when I'm fabbergasted

 

[Farid]

Honestly, I think this whole gyro thing is kinda silly, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, maybe it will result in some really cool extra controls.

The only positive thing out of this addition, if you ask me, is the reaction of the Nintendo fanbase to it.
It's priceless.

If MS had tried something like this they would've got absolutely slammed.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004VWYM.03._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg



And, no, I don't think anyone would have slammed MS for including tilt sensor tech in their pad. Well, no one except some Nintendo fans, that is. But then again some Nintendo fans are slamming MS for just being in the Gaming market, so it's not like it would matter or change much.

 

[Acert93]

The only positive thing out of this addition, if you ask me, is the reaction of the Nintendo fanbase to it.

Nah, what is priceless is comparing the anti-Wii Wand comments before tonight to tonights comments and those down the road

 

[one]

I know Nintendo has a licensing deal with a gyroscopic company (Gyration) so this will be interesting to watch pan out. The cynic in me looks at the Immersion lawsuit and wonders, "Did Sony just swap one lawsuit for another?"

The very motion sensing controller technology was invented by Sony and filed as patents in Japan in 1997, so I think it's perfectly clean for Sony.
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11114223&F=0

Apparently Nintendo uses a sensor bar peripheral, it might be Nintendo who avoided these patents.

EDIT: apparently the URL doesn't work, search JP11099284 and JP11114223 at
http://ep.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=ep/en/number.hts

 

[Farid]

Nintendo's implemention is also much more complex since it can track the controller position into space, if I remember correctly.

 

[StefanS]

Nintendo's implemention is also much more complex since it can track the controller position into space, if I remember correctly.

Yes, and it features two postion alignment elements (one in the tumb stick element plus one in the remote).