Possibilities for DS3
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This would be a feature everyone will turn off.
Take a racing game for example. So the moment you tilt your controller your car starts doing random things. Good idea! Nothing will make me want to put it down faster.
As for ergo's the xbox 360 controller blows the DS controllers out of the water. It's way more comfortable for longer gameplay and I've grown fond of the Headset/Mic and rumble effects. I have no idea what sony was thinking with this tilt feature.
Take a racing game for example. So the moment you tilt your controller your car starts doing random things. Good idea! Nothing will make me want to put it down faster.
As for ergo's the xbox 360 controller blows the DS controllers out of the water. It's way more comfortable for longer gameplay and I've grown fond of the Headset/Mic and rumble effects. I have no idea what sony was thinking with this tilt feature.
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I have never, and don't suppose I will ever, understand the "omg, the DS is terrible for shooters!" comments.
I prefer the level analogue sticks... am I abnormal somehow?
I think they pulled off the triggers better than MS, though, even if I would have preferred them to stay shoulder buttons (you can mash them faster... this is important at times, among other things..). The buttons on the 360 controller are too small and too forward on the controller, and switching between the two can feel awkward at times. It seems the DS3 will have much better synergy between the two sets.
I prefer the level analogue sticks... am I abnormal somehow?
I think they pulled off the triggers better than MS, though, even if I would have preferred them to stay shoulder buttons (you can mash them faster... this is important at times, among other things..). The buttons on the 360 controller are too small and too forward on the controller, and switching between the two can feel awkward at times. It seems the DS3 will have much better synergy between the two sets.
It's not that different from accidentally nudging an analog stick, you just have to be aware that tilting the controller will affect what happens on screen.RobertR1 said:
The tilt will certainly have some amount of dead-zone, possibly adjustable, so that minor tilt movements won't be registered.
It isn't that easy to accidentally tilt the controller enough amount when holding it with your both hands, just try it with your controller.
It might actually work so that one of the shoulder buttons function as a "dead mans trigger", the tilt function only works when you keep for example R1 pressed down, so for example driving long straights you could let go of the R1.
I was surprised they went back to the traditional DS look, I would've preferred the boomerang or something else new, but as the DS has been perfectly fine controller for me ergonomically and function-wise, I think I'll get over it.
I'll miss the rumble though, I think a game like Gran Turismo will loose a lot because of it. While there's been few games the rumble really added much, it was a nice feature when implemented right.
Well, maybe now with 5.1 surround sound, the subwoofer channel will give enough "rumble" to make up
I might even buy one of those "butt shakers", that would sure give a nice feel.Oh yeah, and I think I'll like the tilt sensors. It's a nice extra function that should be good especially in driving games, and maybe fps's. It's not like Wii's controller slab, but it's not meant to be the major feature of the controller either, like the Wii-stick.
So the R2, L2 are now triggers with longer travel? That would be good too.
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Acert93 said:
Do you have any links/pics/videos about this? I can't find any (maybe I'm not looking in the right places).
It sounds like some sort of augmented reality like implementation, which interests me a lot as I'm currently working for a company doing augmented reality applications. Nice to scope out your competition first ya know
Cheers.
IGN have a vid. They show Augmented Reality, a virtual dragon on live feed footage of a player holding a card, but the rest of the game looks nothing like, so I don't know if that was PR stuff or real footage. If real, it was very very cool! Limited in scope for sure, but very cool
To answer the question that is th topic of the thread, I don't think there's much you can do with a gyro only "control pad". Its uses will be very limited to tilting. Tilting contollers were available a long time ago in the form of MS's Sidewinder. Back when I did game testing using the tilt controller was VERY difficult for accuracy in certain games like driving games. That is the BIG issue imo. Sure you can use a tilt controller as a "free flying" controller but can you use it for flying combat? I doubt it. There's a BIG difference between free flying flight simuators and flying combat arcade type games. I'm specifically talking about DELAY not sensitivity. This seems like a last minute hack job on the part of SONY to bury the boomerang fiasco. Unfortunately it doesn't necessarily bring compelling gameplay. Add to that the fact the rumble feature which is a very nice feature had to be removed in order to include this iffy gyro. This thing will be relegated to I Toy like limited use and therefore means limited compelling game support. I've tested driving games using a tilt controller, it doesn't work too well. It only works well for stunt flying and that kind of stuff. Once you add combat it becomes totally unworkable. I don't think SONY's new controller will have any improvements over past tilt controllers like the Sidewinder.
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As direct control I doubt it's up to a great deal, but as an additional control it's welcome for sure. It provides another simple interface for things like camera motion, or can augment input from natural human involvement. eg. A lot of gamera move the controller around playing some game types. Games could actually take advantage of that.
As for comparisons to MS's sidewinder, they're a bit off. You've still go tthe Analogue sticks. The tilt is in addition to normal 'accurate' controls, whereas MS's sidewinder was a replacement to the stable based joystick that didn't add anything new. Also tech should have come on a long way since then for accuracy.
Of course, one question now is how much will the controller cost?
As for comparisons to MS's sidewinder, they're a bit off. You've still go tthe Analogue sticks. The tilt is in addition to normal 'accurate' controls, whereas MS's sidewinder was a replacement to the stable based joystick that didn't add anything new. Also tech should have come on a long way since then for accuracy.
Of course, one question now is how much will the controller cost?
Sure there's the dual analogs but that makes no difference to how a gyro works. You canyt assist a gyro with the analog or make it better. You either use one or the other for a specific task. If you use the tilt for leaning then it makes no sense to simultanieously also use the analog for leaning. It's redundant and relegates the gyro to gimmick uses. Again there's still the DELAY issue even if the accuracy issue is resolved. In fact accuracy also depends on delay or lack thereof.
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What makes you think so?
It's 7 years since the last tilt sensor equipped controller, surely there has been some advancements in the technology since then, not to speak of the fact that the PC's at that age weren't nearly as powerful as the PS3. Ineffective drivers coupled with PC's running with limited free resources must've introduced much of the lag then.
Most of the games then weren't after all designed for the tilt controllers, only a handful were and from what I remember the reports of those games were much more plositive than those that tried to use it as a replacement of a traditional controller.
And the PS3 controller isn't exactly a "gyro only" pad, it still has all the standard DS functions minus the rumble (which, while it was a nice feature in some games, I think it's overemphasizing to say it was more than a gimmick after all).
The hands-on reports by the way have said the function is very responsive and there has not been reports of "delays" or unresponsiveness. i think it's wrong to apply assumptions from patchy implementations a decade ago to today.
The fact the controller is wireless gives it an advantage over the old Sidewinder controllers too.
The tilting certainly isn't suited to many game formats, for example I can't imagine playing a 3rd person adventure game with tilt function, it can bring a lot of variety in those games too. There could be sections, or minigames insidethose games that use the tilt sensor.
An example could be Oblivion, and it's "lock picking" minigame. With a tilt controller such minigame would be fun and more "immersive".
There's tons of similar examples where the tilt function could be used to complement the analog sticks and buttons, not replace them.
At least the PS3 controller has something new added, instead of being just a slightly redesigned last gen controller.
Funny, but I would've been completely satisfied with the "boomerang" controller with no added functionality over DS2, even without the rumble. But as the design is now the same old, I'm glad there is something new to it when I hold it in my hands a lot of my free time
And I'm still positive it'll be a worthy addition. Not as new and wholesome as the Wii's controller, but a nice enough addition nevertheless.
It's not something that sells the PS3 to new or hesitant customers, that true, and I don't think anyone in their right mind is arguing otherwise. A "gimmick" you could say, but that's what the consoles are, gimmicks, they're not necessities at all
It's 7 years since the last tilt sensor equipped controller, surely there has been some advancements in the technology since then, not to speak of the fact that the PC's at that age weren't nearly as powerful as the PS3. Ineffective drivers coupled with PC's running with limited free resources must've introduced much of the lag then.
Most of the games then weren't after all designed for the tilt controllers, only a handful were and from what I remember the reports of those games were much more plositive than those that tried to use it as a replacement of a traditional controller.
And the PS3 controller isn't exactly a "gyro only" pad, it still has all the standard DS functions minus the rumble (which, while it was a nice feature in some games, I think it's overemphasizing to say it was more than a gimmick after all).
The hands-on reports by the way have said the function is very responsive and there has not been reports of "delays" or unresponsiveness. i think it's wrong to apply assumptions from patchy implementations a decade ago to today.
The fact the controller is wireless gives it an advantage over the old Sidewinder controllers too.
The tilting certainly isn't suited to many game formats, for example I can't imagine playing a 3rd person adventure game with tilt function, it can bring a lot of variety in those games too. There could be sections, or minigames insidethose games that use the tilt sensor.
An example could be Oblivion, and it's "lock picking" minigame. With a tilt controller such minigame would be fun and more "immersive".
There's tons of similar examples where the tilt function could be used to complement the analog sticks and buttons, not replace them.
At least the PS3 controller has something new added, instead of being just a slightly redesigned last gen controller.
Funny, but I would've been completely satisfied with the "boomerang" controller with no added functionality over DS2, even without the rumble. But as the design is now the same old, I'm glad there is something new to it when I hold it in my hands a lot of my free time
And I'm still positive it'll be a worthy addition. Not as new and wholesome as the Wii's controller, but a nice enough addition nevertheless.
It's not something that sells the PS3 to new or hesitant customers, that true, and I don't think anyone in their right mind is arguing otherwise. A "gimmick" you could say, but that's what the consoles are, gimmicks, they're not necessities at all
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One use that comes to mind is an overhead type view, footy or CON or some such, where the left stick is movement, and the right hand is button bashing, tilting to move the camera makes sense. It needn't be particularly high-fidelity but would add a lot useable features. Alternatively a game like LocoRoco or Mercury using the tilt and analgoue sticks for other functions. Basically tilt is like a third analogue stick and can be mapped to any such function. We dont know accuracy or lag yet to comment on how useful it is for certain activities. But then if Rev can do it accurately, why can't DS3? They're both using internal motion sensing.
Has the analog thumstick improved much since the N64? Nope. Also a tilt sensor doesn't take much processing power. All the processing is likely done inside the controller itself. The controller just sends the output to the console to move the onscreen object.
I don't think you fully understand what's being talked about here. I'm not saying the controller has ONLY a gyro and no buttons, analog stick, etc. Whether it has buttons or analog is irrelevent to this discussion. All console controllers have buttons analog stick etc. What I'm saying is that the gyro can only be used for one type of operation at any given instant. It allows tilt, that's it. It doesn't allow many types of games or uses. This puts the tilt feature into gimmick territory. Sure you can use it for games like Monky Ball, LocoRoco etc., but beyond that niche, it's pretty useless.
Yeah but does the hands on say anything about what is being done? Are they doing simple flying stunts that don't need any kind of precision? Or are they dog fighting which requires high precision? Going crazy doesn't require precision of any kind.
Using the tilt for lock picking sound like a gimmick use imo.
It also had something removed (rumble) which many people have come to like. Was the removal of the rumble feature worth the gyro feature? I guess we'll see.
See above, the Sidewinder Freestyle controller was inferior tech to what will be used in PS3 controller - 2 axis vs. 6 axis, should be a bit better already based on that fact.NANOTEC said:
While it's always a negative when a feature is taken off, I'm positive the tilt more than compensates for the rumble, that for all that it was worth, hasn't really ever been used for more than just simple rumble apart from very few games where it actually brought something into gameplay.
But as you say, we'll see.
Yes, of course it does, because the tilt is a gimmick, just like the xb360 controllers "Circle of Light" or the Wiimote.
Both are fun gimmicks though, that are more or less worth the money and being there.
It's just you that has put a totally negative meaning to that word among other words
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Just as a point... Weren't we reading of patents and other hearsay along that line well before the Revolution revealed its' controller info?Acert93 said:
Granted we filter through so much detritus over the years before a console launch, but I think it's less "tacked on" than people think. I just think it may have--ultimately--been decided on as the final direction to go after losing their rumble lawsuits and, sure, seeing the Revolution going that way as well.
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I wonder what each controler will cost at retail when you buy them individually.
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