Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

MrFox said:
Which part?
Click to expand...
All of it.
So they are supposed to hit the clocks almost 100% of the time, but under large loads they throttle back, but when the CPU is underutilized it sends power to the GPU to maintain the clock speed, but the console maintains constant power to feed the GPU and CPU so they keep these clockspeeds but 10% reduction of power reduces the clockspeeds by a minor %....it all sounds like an oxymoron with one statement contradicting the other in an endless loop :p
 
Nesh said:
All of it.
So they are supposed to hit the clocks almost 100% of the time, but under large loads they throttle back, but when the CPU is underutilized it sends power to the GPU to maintain the clock speed, but the console maintains constant power to feed the GPU and CPU so they keep these clockspeeds but 10% reduction of power reduces the clockspeeds by a minor %....it all sounds like an oxymoron with one statement contradicting the other in an endless loop :p
Click to expand...

My take is that smartshift is going to be a minor optimization. The worst case scenario will be barely worse than the optimal scenario. So I don't think anything is in conflict. Smartshift is just not going to be a massive benefit, nor a massive crutch.
 
Nesh said:
All of it.
So they are supposed to hit the clocks almost 100% of the time, but under large loads they throttle back, but when the CPU is underutilized it sends power to the GPU to maintain the clock speed, but the console maintains constant power to feed the GPU and CPU so they keep these clockspeeds but 10% reduction of power reduces the clockspeeds by a minor %....it all sounds like an oxymoron with one statement contradicting the other in an endless loop :p
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Honestly I'm not seeing which statement is supposed to contractict which.

You exagerated everything Cerny said, or you read the internets too much:
2% drop in frequency does reduce the power by 10%. This is a reasonable and calculatable claim. He never said it's max clock "almost 100% of the time", he said "most of the time at or close to the max".

The reason they can hit the max or close to it, "most of the time", is because all of the techniques combined reduce the chances of the maximum allocated power to be exceeded and then the gpu throttled. The GPU throttling causes a small drop and high gain because it's in a steep slope at 2.23.

The smartshift part is at the end of that section of the presentation, and he said it's "to squeeze every last drop available". It's not the foundation of the tech. It's an addition to the rest. Raising the power limit of the GPU when the CPU isn't using it.

It's statistics. Increasing how often the performance is indistinguishable from a 2.23/3.5 clocks. Every additional tweak is increasing that statistic. It doesn't mean it's always at the top, but the average is much higher than without any of those techniques.

The actual figures are impossible to predict, because we don't know what the max power cap is. There is however a much bigger advantage to these techniques if they went with a reasonable power consumption.
 
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so nvidia uses the same kind of power balance boost as the PS5 for their new laptop graphics cards ?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-super-laptops/

Max-Q laptops are highly engineered collaborations between NVIDIA and our OEM partners that let us develop and deploy groundbreaking new features that increase both performance and power optimization, such as Advanced Optimus and the new Max-Q Dynamic Boost, on supported models.

Historically, a laptop’s CPU and GPU have a fixed, predefined power budget, regardless of the type of content being run. Our Max-Q Dynamic Boost technology automatically enables real-time GPU and CPU power balancing, allowing the system to dynamically shift up to 15W of power from the CPU to the GPU during GPU-bound workloads, like gaming. It intelligently assesses the power demand of the system on a frame by frame basis, so the power shift only happens when it’s needed. The result is higher frame rates and smoother gaming overall for up to a 10% performance boost, all for free.
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Cyan said:
whatever they are doing developers are saying that PS5 is in trouble and suffering from grave overheating problems.
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Sounds FUD to me, latest DF Richard talks about set balances being chosen by the dev on the cpu and gpu power distribution for dev kits, with only retail being in flux.
Therefore devs are not seeing this wild issue. The fans may be going bat excrement crazy on them as they push the hardware, but it does not sound like they are having issues with unknowns outside how a retail device will cope. If the code works on their chosen balance it will almost certainly work on retail which is more fluid to even out peaks and troughs.

Latest DF has Richard explaining devs currently pick power distribution profiles, retail will fluctuate but not devkits.
Ergo FUD
Devkits are not failing to meet performance in strange ways. Now clocks and fans might be flat out and unflattering, but that is totally different.

Sony no doubt have a great sdk, they aced that in PS4 and this is an extension. Devkits might be rough hardware wise but that post is just rubbish.

Edit: so now it remembers my draft it mysteriously lost... Enjoy my rambling twice :)
 
turkey said:
Edit: so now it remembers my draft it mysteriously lost... Enjoy my rambling twice :)
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lol.. yea that happens to me sometimes too. I write a draft I leave the page, Reply to something else. Etc.. It can get nasty with the caching.
 
Sony's marketing has been disaster up to this point tbh. They didnt even confirm VRS, which I am pretty sure they have. They went defensive with 36CU variable clocks that just poured gasoline on fire.

Was better how they did it with PS4Pro tbh. Something like below would work better :

"Yes, we went with 36CUs with variable clocks because we thought putting budget into few other things will result in better all around experince.

We will use DLSS equivalent for 4K output and people will not know the difference. Max frequency is 2.2GHz, lowest is 2.0GHz, but we think based on our tests chip should operate at upper level in 90% of cases.

Obviously PS5 features all RDNA2 native features such as VRS/Mesh shaders/RT etc.

Now, lets talk about stuff we are better then our competition and which we think will actually make bigger difference".

Done.
 
I'm interested to see what their cooling solution is. The power shift stuff sounds interesting but considering its something that is part of the amd hardware and not a customer sony design , it seems odd that the other console player hasn't made use of it.

At the end of the day the games will speak for themselves and I am pretty sure by june we will see games
 
Cyan said:
whatever they are doing developers are saying that PS5 is in trouble and suffering from grave overheating problems.
Click to expand...
Something is definitely wrong if Sony is lagging behind Microsoft in showcasing PS5's final look and target performance/visual quality. You would think that they would beat Microsoft in this given that they started earlier than them.
 
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