Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Inuhanyou said:
Kinda misleading article. Revenue is high but profit ain't that hot. Meanwhile Nintendo is market leader with sales and profits and MS are market leader with MAU and subs.
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It stil baffles me how people think revenue is useful. It's a sign of commercial popularity, but not of success by the traditional metric: profits/losses.
 
DSoup said:
It stil baffles me how people think revenue is useful. It's a sign of commercial popularity, but not of success by the traditional metric: profits/losses.
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Revenue is an indicator for popularity. People clearly love the Playstation. It still baffles be how people think some outdated metric like profits/losses should be the all-or-nothing understanding for success.
 
Pinstripe said:
Revenue is an indicator for popularity. People clearly love the Playstation. It still baffles be how people think some outdated metric like profits/losses should be the all-or-nothing understanding for success.
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Popularity doesn't pay people's wages, nor the mortgage for your premises. Profits do, which is why the long-held convention for being commercially successful is making actual profits.

Twitter was popular for a decade but it was not profitable, nor could their management make it profitable.
 
DSoup said:
It stil baffles me how people think revenue is useful. It's a sign of commercial popularity, but not of success by the traditional metric: profits/losses.
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It seems to be the new economy of growth and investment without profits. Lots of massive loss-leaders, possibly inspired entirely by Amazon's growth model? Whatever, seems investors would rather see massive revenues with zero operating profits than invest in a company that can actually make more money than it spends. That said, there's also something to be said for reinvestment as fast as you are making money. If you are just banking it, that cash isn't going to work. I guess ideally a company would be massive revenue, minimal profits, massive growth.

DSoup said:
Popularity doesn't pay people's wages, nor the mortgage for your premises. Profits do, which is why the long-held convention for being commercially successful is making actual profits.

Twitter was popular for a decade but it was not profitable, nor could their management make it profitable.
Click to expand...
Ignoring Pinstripe's patronising, or whatever it is he's doing, the point there is wages comes out of costs so will be deducted from profits. Hence profits don't pay wages, but revenue does. Massive revenue allows for more employees, and employing more people results in lower profits.

Hmm, thinking about it it does start to make more sense. What's the value in a company turning a massive profit and not growing versus one that isn't a turning a massive profit and is instead spending on getting bigger?
 
Yup. If anything revenue goes to wages. profits go to shareholders.

If you reinvest profits back into more growth, your profits go down but your revenue goes up. Any company chasing growth will do this and the stock will still go up but dividends will be much smaller.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
It seems to be the new economy of growth and investment without profits. Lots of massive loss-leaders, possibly inspired entirely by Amazon's growth model? Whatever, seems investors would rather see massive revenues with zero operating profits than invest in a company that can actually make more money than it spends.
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I think that bubble has firmly burst and investors are showing themselves to be far less amenable to sizeable investment on high revenue low profit ventures without an actual firm plan for monetisation.

Amazon and Twitter are the darling poster-child for the seemingly endless patience of investors which seems in shorted supply today. Amazon was setup in 1994 and posted its first profitable return ten years later in 2004. The business has since diversified which is good because the Amazon.com has no longer profitable.

Shifty Geezer said:
Ignoring Pinstripe's patronising, or whatever it is he's doing, the point there is wages comes out of costs so will be deducted from profits. Hence profits don't pay wages, but revenue does. Massive revenue allows for more employees, and employing more people results in lower profits.
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I'm old so I differentiate between profit (sometimes called gross profit) and net profits. But to be clear, there is running in the black and running in the red. If you run in the black but make zero net profit, you are at least immediately sustainable, but if you're burning more than is coming in (losses) then revenue can't help without patient investors with more money to dish out. You need a clear plan to reduce costs, or monetise more efficiently.

If Sony don't make decent net profits, they will have less to invest in new games, not to mention PS6 and PSVR3. These are the kind of long-term investments which eat money from the very start and where the first returns from sales will be 2-8 years off.

If I setup a business tomorrow buying Ferraris and selling then for $5,000 I dare say my revenue would be tremendous. My bottom line, not so much.
 
DSoup said:
I'm old so I differentiate between profit (sometimes called gross profit) and net profits.
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That might be the major change, moving to 'revenue' and 'net profits' to understand a business. As long as money is in the black and revenue is on the up, a company looks good.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
It seems to be the new economy of growth and investment without profits. Lots of massive loss-leaders, possibly inspired entirely by Amazon's growth model? Whatever, seems investors would rather see massive revenues with zero operating profits than invest in a company that can actually make more money than it spends. That said, there's also something to be said for reinvestment as fast as you are making money. If you are just banking it, that cash isn't going to work. I guess ideally a company would be massive revenue, minimal profits, massive growth.


Ignoring Pinstripe's patronising, or whatever it is he's doing, the point there is wages comes out of costs so will be deducted from profits. Hence profits don't pay wages, but revenue does. Massive revenue allows for more employees, and employing more people results in lower profits.

Hmm, thinking about it it does start to make more sense. What's the value in a company turning a massive profit and not growing versus one that isn't a turning a massive profit and is instead spending on getting bigger?
Click to expand...
Ideally you'd spend your money on investment into important things. But many large companies focus on deceptive growth through buy backs and junk while pocketing all the money they make and allowing the business and wages of lower salary workers to languish or get cut. It's a very scummy practice
 
www.tomshardware.com

Sony Becomes AMD's Largest Customer on Booming PS5 Sales

Gaming was AMD's largest business in 2022.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
Sony became AMD's largest customer last year, accounting for 16% of the company's revenue as its PlayStation 5 increased its lead over competitors. Sravan Kundojjala, a semiconductor industry analyst, noted that if Xilinx results are excluded, Sony accounts for 20% of AMD's revenue, probably making it the company's largest customer in recent history.

Indeed, the gaming business unit was AMD's largest revenue generator, which indicates that sales of system-on-chips for Microsoft's Xbox Series X|S consoles were also strong. AMD sold Sony some $3.776 billion worth of chips for PlayStation 5 game consoles in 2022, which accounted for 16% of the company's revenue for the year, according to the company's filling with the SEC.
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Shifty Geezer said:
Any note on what MS's contribution is? That'd give a nice indicator of relative sales.
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Then again it might not, at least not sales to consumers, if either is building out datacenters. Not saying that either one absolutely is, but it's possible. 🤷‍♂️
 
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