Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[MrFox]

Legal is what is at stake.

Ever read a software EULA?

 

[BRiT]

Ever read a software EULA?

Ever written a software EULA?

 

[iroboto]

Ever read a software EULA?

You know about how all contracts are signed? You think all contracts are alike?

have you ever had to go through a cert process before?

certification for platform holders is when they say “ok” we allow you to move forward. We detected no issues. Etc. Most of the time they will tell you what is wrong and what needs fixing. They are also looking for developer changes where someone could insert a hot coffee moment. They are looking for anything that can destroy their brand. Like changing a texture to being pornographic in nature.

That is why all versions, all patches are certified.

so if you’re asking me to certify my own game, you are telling me it may not work. I don’t know why this is coming across as a conspiracy.

 

[London Geezer]

The controller is white. Light makes it seem black at some angles.

What? Is this like the whole black and blue vs white and gold thing?

 

[BRiT]

What? Is this like the whole black and blue vs white and gold thing?

Deja-Vu -- https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2118358/

 

[Mitchings]

The controller is white. Light makes it seem black at some angles.

Just watched the trailer on YT (rather than the Twitter GIF) and it seems you're right based on the first few shots!

 

[London Geezer]

It’s black.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think the alternative view is to say games certified after july13th are not allowed to use gimped mode. Hence they must be certified as only option is BC enhanced mode. We don't know which way of thinking is true. But it's easy to think glass half full/half empty until we know for sure.

That goes against the wording...

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.
​

If it required enhancements, that should read something like:

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs in enhanced mode without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides some improvements over the PS4 experience when running on PS5.​

 

[Deleted member 86764]

That goes against the wording...

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.
​

If it required enhancements, that should read something like:

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs in enhanced mode without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides some improvements over the PS4 experience when running on PS5.​

We should know better, hopefully, in one week's time.

My money is on the PS5 being compatible with the vast majority of PS4 games.

 

[manux]

That goes against the wording...

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.
​

If it required enhancements, that should read something like:

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs in enhanced mode without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides some improvements over the PS4 experience when running on PS5.​

If sony wanted to be explicit they could also have excluded bc enhanced mode as not being a requirement for passing certification. I think this text can be understood in many different ways and is not conclusive.

 

[disco_]

Deja-Vu -- https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2118358/

Cut me some slack. Most people still think the controller is white and black.

Just watched the trailer on YT (rather than the Twitter GIF) and it seems you're right based on the first few shots!

I got excited when I saw a black controller when watching it on my phone. Bigger screen made it pretty obvious it's the same white we've seen before.

That goes against the wording...

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.
​

What do you make of the statement following the one you quoted?

So, for example, a developer couldn't flag their game as PS5 compatible but not provide support for a certain mode on next-gen hardware.

Is that pertaining to game modes within a game itself or the modes listed on this capture?

I wish eurogamer just showed the document itself rather than snippets.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My money is on the PS5 being compatible with the vast majority of PS4 games.

So's mine - Cerny said as much.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What do you make of the statement following the one you quoted?

Is that pertaining to game modes within a game itself or the modes listed on this capture?

Modes in the game. eg. Multiplayer still works but single player doesn't, the game would not be able to be certified for release on PS4 and the devs would have to rework it so all game modes run on both machines.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If sony wanted to be explicit they could also have excluded bc enhanced mode as not being a requirement for passing certification. I think this text can be understood in many different ways and is not conclusive.

But they don't need to be that explicit because the wording points to a clear meaning that you have to try and fudge to mean something else. Also, this isn't Sony's wording bu the articles. The article may be reporting wrongly. As written though, it isn't ambiguous. It may be inaccurate, it certainly isn't conclusive, but it's not ambiguous.

 

[iroboto]

FFS.
Read an actual contract between MS and Take Two Interactive.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/946581/000104746914000555/a2218068zex-10_1.htm

there is _a lot_ more to supporting backwards compatibility than just the technical aspects. Not to mention an opportunity for a developer to re-negotiate royalty amounts if they have a successful title. Yes, that re-negotiation that may drive a developer to go back and improve a title that everyone is taking for granted.

But clearly, developers don't have a say. Apparently once Sony says, yea lets go, everyone shit is going to move forward, I'm sure Rocket League and other hit indie titles will be happy about this. Welcome to Scotty Pippen 2.0. Perpetual sales for Sony's consoles at the lowest royalty rates.

Everything on that contract is specific to Xbox One. That means any other platforms it releases to needs a new contract. It's that simple. So unless there is a new contract written or a clause where it specifies more platforms or indicated forward perpetuity, good luck placing a game that didn't sign onto it.

The publisher will just pull their game off if you attempt this. We saw this with Geforce Now.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

It's hard to say at this point what percentage of at least native PS4/Pro BC we can expect. Certainly less than 100%. Hopefully it'll be the same success rate as the PS4Pro's boost mode: never-had-any-problems%.

Personally, I think a fairly high percentage (70-80%) will be fine, just based on hardware BC patents we've seen for clockspeed spoofing etc. I don't see why they would go to the extent of patenting approaches to hardware BC and customising the silicon if it's often going to need direct developer utilisation anyway.

It's good that we've got confirmation of developers having to ensure PS5 compatibility of their PS4 games. If a game runs at a respectable framerate and resolution on the PS4Pro, we can reasonably expect 60fps or roughly a doubling of resolution. Sony said they were having trouble maintaining 2GHz with fixed clocks, so maybe just err on the side of caution with a "PS5 Enhanced" BC mode (since we don't yet know details of the PS5's hardware BC) clock of 1.95GHz. That's still 8.99TF.

8.99/4.2 = 2.14
2560 * 1440 = 3,686,400
1440p * 2.14 = 7,888,896
3200 * 1800 = 5,760,000
3840 * 2160 = 8,294,400

3744 * 2106 = 7,884,864
3745 * 2107 = 7,890,715

So a 1440p30 PS4Pro title can reasonably be expected to at least run at ~1440p60/2106p30 (maybe with some 48 and 27 pixel wide borders ) on the PS5. That's just imagining a worst case of devs seeing a PS4ProPro: 3.5GHz 16 thread Jaguar, 1.95GHz 36CU GCN.

Most of all, I think it's a pretty positive indication of something quite important: a single submission for the whole PlayStation ecosystem.

 

[Barrabas]

It’s black.

It doesn't matter if you are black or white

 

[orangpelupa]

So's mine - Cerny said as much.

i hope at minimum it also compatible with P.T. and driveclub. Even better if it can render driveclub at 4K without any patch.

now i wonder... will it supports PS4 -> PS5 game trasnfer via WiFi or Ethernet or USB Extended Storage?

 

[HBRU]

Also the guy that made no man's sky has said every time they release a big free update sales go up so there's that angle also.

NMS and Starcitizen I think are special cases...

 

[HBRU]

They don't say if they need to release PS5 binaries or if it's just tested compatibility with the PS5 Boost mode (36CUs @ ~2GHz?). It's probably the latter.

Aren't all games required to have a PS4 Pro mode at the moment?
If they are, then the certification process for the PS5 Boost mode should present little effort over the PS4 Pro version.

If not, then in practice they're saying it needs to have a PS4 Pro mode with PS5 Boost testing done.


I don't see how this says anything about PS5's BC. Back when the boost mode for the PS4 Pro released, it supported pretty much every game without any extra work. Only a handful of games had problems with the higher-clocked GPU and CPU.


EDIT:


The article is pretty accurate:


1 - It says "compatibility".

2 - Same features on PS5 as it does on PS4 means it doesn't need to support any PS5 exclusive features.

It's BC mode.

Hopefully to get a BC code running well has almost the same effort of bringing it to 60 fps... if this is the case we will see less ps4 title running on ps5 but hopefully the best and best running.... that means also that PS5 BC to PS4 is not so perfectly working (different CPU and GPU structure)....

But I think shiftys post implied ps5 BC might suck and be very limited. That's not the impression I have. I believe it's more like there is 2 flavors of BC and the gimped mode would not be allowed for new games. At least this is my understanding.

It's not as simple I think.
Probably there are 7 possibilities...

1) PS4 BC mode (sw unch)
2) PS4pro BC mode (sw unch)
3) PS4 turbo mode (sw unch)
4) PS4pro turbo mode (sw unch)
5) PS4 enhanced to ps5 mode (sw patched)
6) PS4pro enhanced to PS5 mode (sw patched)
7) PS5 native mode

It's hard to say at this point what percentage of at least native PS4/Pro BC we can expect. Certainly less than 100%. Hopefully it'll be the same success rate as the PS4Pro's boost mode: never-had-any-problems%.

Personally, I think a fairly high percentage (70-80%) will be fine, just based on hardware BC patents we've seen for clockspeed spoofing etc. I don't see why they would go to the extent of patenting approaches to hardware BC

I suspect they offer a sure BC with PS4 titles (maybe trough some sort of ps4 virtualization helped also by same clock) but NOT on the PS4pro enhanced titles.... this has also sense in a commercial view: you pay something to get 4K@60fps... people with ps4pro don't hurry to sale them do that keeps a bit the value of used ps4pro higher...