Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Unknown Soldier]

You bolded the wrong part...

Sony are testing lots of titles. those that don't run, they contact the dev to fix them. Going forwards, devs have to fix PS5 compatiibiity to be able to release new PS4 games. Going backwards, games that aren't compatible and don't get fixed won't run on PS5.

I find it hard to believe that there will be a few PS4 games that you can't play on the PS5. I mean how very different is the insturctions/sub-instructions/extensions designed by AMD for the PS5 that it won't be able to support PS4 games? We know that you can play DX9 games still on a DX12 cards and yes Sony won't be using DX but what ever new version of the PSSL, GNM, GNMX they have, should be backwards compatible surely?

What possible instruction set could cause a PS4 game not to work on the PS5?

Now if you say games wouldn't be able to take advantage of boost mode of the PS5 if they aren't designed for it, then I agree as really old games that weren't designed to take advantage of example PS4 Pro's boost mode then clearly won't take advantage of the PS5's super powers.

In my opinion, all PS4 games should work on the PS5.

Cerny never mentioned that they found games not working on the PS5. He just said that if there weren't games working, that game would be highlighted with the developer to make it compatible.

 

[goonergaz]

In my opinion, all PS4 games should work on the PS5.

Cerny never mentioned that they found games not working on the PS5. He just said that if there weren't games working, that game would be highlighted with the developer to make it compatible.

Where did he say that? I know he said most of the top 100 were working...which implies not all games work. Think something like PS2 BC where it was like 99%

 

[Scott_Arm]

AMD RDNA was designed for backwards compatibility with GCN, most likely because of the games consoles. I expect there may be some issues here and there, but I'm assuming it means it supports the GCN ISA.

 

[MrFox]

Using the same ISA, or running in a VM to translate, cannot solve race conditions in the game code. If a dev forgot a mutex somewhere, the BC layer cannot know it, it would need either a patch or running in a cycle-exact mode.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I know of at least one game that would have issues with the new console, but it also had the same issue with the PS4 Pro. The Dark Souls 1/2 games were capped at 30fps and when played on the PS4 Pro in dev mode with the frame cap removed, the game becomes a bit unplayable with as the game sped up. However the game was playable as normal with the 30fps cap.

I expect the same issue on the PS5, you should be able to play all games as normal, but if you want to in boosted mode with better graphics and frame rates then that's where a dev would have to release a patch to enable 1) better graphics 2) better frame rate.

But the feature sets of the PS4 should be supported by default on the PS5 and hence you should be able to play all PS4 games on the PS5 albeit one or two games might need a patch.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We know that you can play DX9 games still on a DX12 cards and yes Sony won't be using DX but what ever new version of the PSSL, GNM, GNMX they have, should be backwards compatible surely?

That's the whole point - apparently that's not the case. Devs were allowed to effectively bypass the API layer and address the hardware directly, telling what data to go to what registers and which CUs should run which shaders sort of thing. The moment those register move, that code no longer works. AMD had to include GCN support into RDNA 1.

I always thought there was a large hardware compatibility between devices form the same arch, but even that's not true. GCN changed over time as a later GCN card could not run to-the-metal code from another GCN CPU, requiring the driver to interpret instructions. PS4 doesn't have this driver layer, or rather, that driver layer can be bypassed.

Cerny never mentioned that they found games not working on the PS5. He just said that if there weren't games working, that game would be highlighted with the developer to make it compatible.

Most games worked but some didn't, and when they don't, the developer needs to change them, and perhaps the developer can't or doesn't want to.

 

[see colon]

But the feature sets of the PS4 should be supported by default on the PS5 and hence you should be able to play all PS4 games on the PS5 albeit one or two games might need a patch.

You can't force a developer or publisher to patch a game to work on newer hardware. Unmotivated publishers or developers might just let their games exist on PS4, never being made compatible. And there's also legal considerations. What if a game's IP has changed hands? Take a game like Deadpool. Published by Activision, but it's a marvel IP and Activision no longer has rights to develop software based on the IP. Would that include updates? Who would do the updates if it were legal? Activision fired the team after the game was completed.

These are the situations people are worried about. Overall, I'm pretty optimistic about the BC solutions Sony and MS have planned. I do expect MS solution to be more robust, based on their track record with BC, but if Sony gets the library mostly compatible, that's a big step in the right direction.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think people also underappreciate the size of these libraries. PSN is full of titles you've never heard of, over 2600 apparently. There are loads of tiny devs and indies. You only need one flavour of a middleware to have issues, lets say Unity 5.4, and all the titles built on that will have issues. Unity would be unlikely to patch a legacy version of their engine, so devs would either have to port to a later Unity, which can involve notable work and even break completely, or just not bother.

Sony tested the 100 most played titles, which are most certainly those from big publishers. The chances of them doing 'funny things' with the hardware is higher, so the majority running is a good sign that the BC can cope with exotic functions, but the small titles are tentatively poised on whether their tools are compatible or not which they have no control over and which might raise a spectre of numerous failed titles built on particular engines. At least with those same games on XB, MS will be continuing to tweak the BC to run these titles without game owners needing to rely on the devs.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I just want to play the games ive invested money in on ps4 for ps5 without worrying about that.

Dont care about any other compatibility as i own a ps3 already and am fine keeping it for those investments. They only have to worry about one generation. Sony must put in as much effort as they can to bring out atleast rudimentary support for their most recent platform. Its the only way to make people care about the ecosystem they have built up over the last 7 years.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony must put in as much effort as they can to bring out atleast rudimentary support for their most recent platform. Its the only way to make people care about the ecosystem they have built up over the last 7 years.

There's a value curve here. If 95% of gamers are happy with 80% of games working, it's probably not worth worrying about the rest. In this regard Sony are competing with MS and don't want people jumping ship if the other platform looks more stable in the library, so that means securing the games most people care most about. Little games hardly anyone plays liekly won't factor too much into console-buyers' decision making unless they are very committed to a game that's only playable on the MS ecosystem.

In short, nothing in business is 'at any cost'

 

[Boxercide]

PS5 reveal delayed.

 

[Inuhanyou]

There's a value curve here. If 95% of gamers are happy with 80% of games working, it's probably not worth worrying about the rest. In this regard Sony are competing with MS and don't want people jumping ship if the other platform looks more stable in the library, so that means securing the games most people care most about. Little games hardly anyone plays liekly won't factor too much into console-buyers' decision making unless they are very committed to a game that's only playable on the MS ecosystem.

In short, nothing in business is 'at any cost'

What kinds of games are we even talking about as lesser priority is the question. Are little games no one cares about small indie titles or big titles with limited sales.

 

[JPT]

What kinds of games are we even talking about as lesser priority is the question. Are little games no one cares about small indie titles or big titles with limited sales.

Its what Sony deems will impact them negativ or positively most. I doubt anybody, here at least, will lose much sleep if Life of Black Tiger can not run on PS5, but Last Of Us 2 would be a bigger issue or GTA V.

So it is the most popular and economically successful games, that steps will be taken to make work. I ASSUME

 

[Inuhanyou]

PS5 reveal delayed.

B L M. Mine being one of them. Good on sony. I wanna know about ps5. I am hungry for info like no one else especially to get my mind off of real life. But you cant host this event on the same day as georges memorial service.

 

[PSman1700]

PS5 must be the least hyped somy console (so far).

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I completely agree. We all want some positive news, but marketing is about picking your time. This event is about buzz and buzz will occur in the gaming press regardless, but I assume Sony want wider coverage and PS5's launch game lineup is a trivial issue compared to almost everything else going wrong in the world. That said, if Sony are waiting for the world be a nice place, they may be waiting awhile!

 

[Inuhanyou]

It wont be that long.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What kinds of games are we even talking about as lesser priority is the question. Are little games no one cares about small indie titles or big titles with limited sales.

Could be anything. It's wrong to think little games aren't cared about by anyone though. The majority, sure, but sometimes an odd fringe title is someone's favourite. An example from myself, Age of Booty on PS3. It's a great little game with no alternatives. Now if that was a PS4 title and I learned it wasn't coming to PS5 because the devs aren't going to fix it but it was on XB, that'd increase the chances of me picking XB because it feels 'safer'. For the vast majority of people, they only care about their games, and aren't interested in games other people may like. If Sony secures the majority, that's probably the best compromise, especially if that's a very large majority. But we shouldn't dismiss 'little games' as games no-one cares anything about. That effectively associates 'little' with 'a bit crap and pointless'.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Little games nobody plays was my intention to quote your earlier post

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I won't be happy if The Binding of Issac doesn't play on the PS5. I've put countless hours into that game on my PS4 and PC(steam).