Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't see how this says anything about PS5's BC...

Because it says games may not run and devs will have to ensure they do. Makes sense for new games, but that also means existing games may not run. It's telling us PS4 titles aren't 100% 'just run it' BC and when they're not, devs will need to fix issues. That means a portion of the library, anything from 1 title to 100 titles or more, won't be PS4 BC and not every dev will want to or be able to patch their game.

If Sony didn't need to ask devs to validate BC on new titles because they just run, we could assume the PS4 build tools just run on PS5, meaning less chance of incompatible older games.

Putting it another way, every PS4 game after July will be BC on PS5. That certification means not every game before July will be BC.

 

[London Geezer]

And here we go

4th June it is!

 

[manux]

Because it says games may not run and devs will have to ensure they do. Makes sense for new games, but that also means existing games may not run. It's telling us PS4 titles aren't 100% 'just run it' BC and when they're not, devs will need to fix issues. That means a portion of the library, anything from 1 title to 100 titles or more, won't be PS4 BC and not every dev will want to or be able to patch their game.

If Sony didn't need to ask devs to validate BC on new titles because they just run, we could assume the PS4 build tools just run on PS5, meaning less chance of incompatible older games.

Putting it another way, every PS4 game after July will be BC on PS5. That certification means not every game before July will be BC.

Wasn't the BC 2 tiered solution in ps5? There is gimped mode where ps5 tries to match ps4 performance and better mode where games take some advantage of ps5 hw. Could it be new games are just not allowed to use gimped mode anymore?

 

[iroboto]

It sounds like a licensing issue not a tech issue. Developers or publishers must opt into PS5 BC. The games likely all work (would be terrible scenario if there are tech issues); but there is still a contract portion. Which MS has largely indicated as the largest barrier to BC.

Games that are releasing after July 13 for certification are forced to opt in.

this means before this date you can theoretically remaster on PS5 still. It leaves the option open, it would be harder for games post July 13 to take that route.

 

[manux]

We already had flavor of discussion due to cerny talk. He said there will be some ps4 games that run better on ps5 at launch and rest would use gimped mode. We understood if first only those few games would work on ps5 and BC would be very limitd. Later on it was understood that rest of the games would run in gimped mode and not benefit from ps5 hw. At least that is how I understood the BC discussion ended. This certification could easily just be make ps4 games ps5 compatible so they can run in higher res/framerate on ps5.

 

[iroboto]

We already had flavor of discussion due to cerny talk. He said there will be some ps4 games that run better on ps5 at launch and rest would use gimped mode. We understood if first only those few games would work on ps5 and BC would be very limitd. Later on it was understood that rest of the games would run in gimped mode and not benefit from ps5 hw. At least that is how I understood the BC discussion ended. This certification could easily just be make ps4 games ps5 compatible so they can run in higher res/framerate on ps5.

In my small time I had to go through this, Submission for certification means submission for deploying onto the platform. I sent my work in for cert. they check it etc. And give me the okay. And after pass it can go forwards.

It sounds like developers post July 13 must submit to PS5 certification for PS4 titles.

 

[manux]

In my small time I had to go through this, Submission for certification means submission for deploying onto the platform. I sent my work in for cert. they check it etc. And give me the okay. And after pass it can go forwards.

It sounds like developers post July 13 must submit to PS5 certification for PS4 titles.

But I think shiftys post implied ps5 BC might suck and be very limited. That's not the impression I have. I believe it's more like there is 2 flavors of BC and the gimped mode would not be allowed for new games. At least this is my understanding.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Because it says games may not run and devs will have to ensure they do. Makes sense for new games, but that also means existing games may not run. It's telling us PS4 titles aren't 100% 'just run it' BC and when they're not, devs will need to fix issues. That means a portion of the library, anything from 1 title to 100 titles or more, won't be PS4 BC and not every dev will want to or be able to patch their game.

If Sony didn't need to ask devs to validate BC on new titles because they just run, we could assume the PS4 build tools just run on PS5, meaning less chance of incompatible older games.

Putting it another way, every PS4 game after July will be BC on PS5. That certification means not every game before July will be BC.

This is Sony being careful on making sure all recent games run well on the new platform, by asking devs on their own PS5 dev kits to test the games themselves, probably because Sony will have little opportunity to mass test all games anytime soon.

Interpreting that as this doesn't bode well for PS5's BC, considering how the last time they implemented BC in a very similar way resulted in a >99% compatibility with the existing library, sounds a bit like FUD to me.

 

[iroboto]

But I think shiftys post implied ps5 BC might suck and be very limited. That's not the impression I have. I believe it's more like there is 2 flavors of BC and the gimped mode would not be allowed for new games. At least this is my understanding.

If we have intent on deploying onto a platform we must make sure our game works on that platform. Once we think it works, we submit it for certification. Once we get back the response from their testing teams (2-3 weeks later) they let us know if they found any issues or not. If not we can proceed.

I don’t know how any of this works with BC. As noted, perhaps there are too many games in BC that need to be tested at once for launch thus asking them to self cert?

But if they are asking developers to cert their titles for BC, then that is the process that they want. If a developer chooses not to certify, there is no guarantee it will work or if it is BC compatible. So I see this as opt in for BC.

TLDR; Developers will ultimately be responsible for their BC performance here and if they don’t want to go through the cert process, the game will likely not be available for BC.

This is a situation that arises because Sony cannot guarantee that the game will work exactly as you submit it for PS4. So they can’t release it on the marketplace for BC because if it’s different due to BC but devs aren’t supporting the title and that would be unfair to the developer/publisher to receive pressure to resolve BC issues if they didn’t want to, to begin with. So devs must opt in for certification before July 13. Devs are forced into certification after July 13.

 

[chris1515]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

No cross gen for Sony first party game

 

[manux]

I don’t know how any of this works with BC. As noted, perhaps there are too many games in BC that need to be tested at once for launch thus asking them to self cert?

My understanding and I could be mistaken is that almost all games would work on the gimped mode. However they would not benefit from ps5 hw. Some ps4 games at launch will have patches to make them use ps5 hw while running in BC mode(higher clocks, more gpu). And to extend this I think sony intends to not allow use of gimped mode for future ps4 games so they would behave better on ps5(higher framerate, resolution,...).

 

[disco_]

Because it says games may not run and devs will have to ensure they do. Makes sense for new games, but that also means existing games may not run. It's telling us PS4 titles aren't 100% 'just run it' BC and when they're not, devs will need to fix issues. That means a portion of the library, anything from 1 title to 100 titles or more, won't be PS4 BC and not every dev will want to or be able to patch their game.

If Sony didn't need to ask devs to validate BC on new titles because they just run, we could assume the PS4 build tools just run on PS5, meaning less chance of incompatible older games.

Putting it another way, every PS4 game after July will be BC on PS5. That certification means not every game before July will be BC.

You're saying these games won't have BC through either legacy modes or native ps5 support? To me, this is about ps4 games running native ps5 clocks, same scenario as Cerny mentioned in road to ps5.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

No cross gen for Sony first party game

Yikes. Last year they said

“Having compatibility is a positive thing. Not only can a game be played on the next-generation console, cross-generation the community can enjoy the games together… bridging that compatibility has a very important role to play.”

https://www.gtplanet.net/playstation-5-cross-generation-play/

Oops, sorry, I misunderstood.
Yeah, they told us in 2017 or 2018 that any 1st party games that started development after that year would not be coming to ps4.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

And here we go

4th June it is!

How many times did you check the URL and spelling of PlayStation?

 

[iroboto]

My understanding and I could be mistaken is that almost all games would work on the gimped mode. However they would not benefit from ps5 hw. Some ps4 games at launch will have patches to make them use ps5 hw while running in BC mode(higher clocks, more gpu). And to extend this I think sony intends to not allow use of gimped mode for future ps4 games so they would behave better on ps5(higher framerate, resolution,...).

And if the developer or publisher is no longer there to support the title or do not want to support the title? Unless you can guarantee with 100% certainty nothing changes you can be in legal heat if they don’t opt in because Sony would be forcing them to represent a title that they didn’t want to.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But I think shiftys post implied ps5 BC might suck and be very limited. That's not the impression I have.

I did not say it sucks and is very limited! Just that it may involve some developer input, and as such there may be a larger (larger, not large) portion of titles that don't make it across versus XB where MS do the BC work. Cerny has already said he expect the majority to just work, but is that 99%, or 95%, or 80% or what?

 

[dobwal]

Some will sure, but at the end of the day, why didn't you buy a game? If you didn't want it when it first released because the story didn't appeal or the style wasn't alluring or it didn't look like gameplay you'd enjoy, why would you care about it on PS5 when it has those same reasons to not get it? This is only for one-generation old titles. For older titles, big remakes or missed opportunities makes new versions more appealing. But for games that came out on PS4 that you didn't buy, AC Origins say, will you buy those games for updated visuals over brand new next-gen games with 'updated visuals'? If so, why? Is the sole reason you didn't buy them this gen that they weren't pretty enough? Or did you not have enough time for them, at which point will it be the case next gen that you'll have more time to play old games?

Because they are cheap. Enhanced with a smaller price tag may encouraged a “yes” when in past it was a “meh”.

Ive never played Saints Row 3 because I didn’t care for the direction of franchise with the added silliness. However I am tempted by the new enhanced version to see the improved graphics and whether I may have misjudged the game or not.

 

[manux]

I did not say it sucks and is very limited! Just that it may involve some developer input, and as such there may be a larger (larger, not large) portion of titles that don't make it across versus XB where MS do the BC work. Cerny has already said he expect the majority to just work, but is that 99%, or 95%, or 80% or what?

I read your comment on expecting that the games would not work and certification is needed to make them work. I wanted to provide alternative view that maybe certification has nothing to do with working but everything to do with enabling full use of BC mode, i.e. higher refresh rate, better resolution in games etc. One implies bc kind of sucks, other one implies bc doesn't suck but enhanced bc might rock.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I read your comment on expecting that the games would not work and certification is needed to make them work. I wanted to provide alternative view that maybe certification has nothing to do with working but everything to do with enabling full use of BC mode...

Totz pointed out that clarification in article though:

Further documentation sheds light on what "compatibility" means. A game will be deemed compatible with PlayStation 5 only if its submission code runs without issues on Sony's next-gen machine, and provides the same features on PS5 as it does on PS4.​

Runs without issue and provides the same features, not enhanced. There'll likely be an explicit 'PS5 enhanced' labelling and certification which is optional, whereas Sony requiring devs to check their PS4 games run on PS5 without issue is mandatory from July.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

TLDR; Developers will ultimately be responsible for their BC performance here and if they don’t want to go through the cert process, the game will likely not be available for BC.

Surely not? The PS5 has essentially a hardware solution for backwards compatibility. I would expect most games to simply work, but at the same settings as PS4. Some will be advanced at the rate of PS4 Pro and some make use of the full PS5

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely not? The PS5 has essentially a hardware solution for backwards compatibility.

If that's the case, why do devs have to certify their PS4 games to run on PS5?