Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[manux]

If that's the case, why do devs have to certify their PS4 games to run on PS5?

Because poorly written game that for example expects 30Hz refresh rate can break badly if game is suddenly rendering at 60Hz. Similarly maybe faster gpu mode breaks something and graphics are broken. Solution to this is gimped mode that mimicks ps4 performance.

Certifying would give sony way to force developers to fix broken code so faster ps5 mode can run the game without glitches. Selling point would be that even if you buy ps4 games they are better on ps5.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

If that's the case, why do devs have to certify their PS4 games to run on PS5?

Because they can then make better use of the hardware exactly how the Pro does.

I'm sure they had to do the same for the Pro even if they didn't make a patch that used the additional hardware.

 

[iroboto]

Surely not? The PS5 has essentially a hardware solution for backwards compatibility. I would expect most games to simply work, but at the same settings as PS4. Some will be advanced as the rate of PS4 Pro and some make use of the full PS5

You don’t need to certify again if it was 100% native. so that means Sony can’t guarantee it.

According to the article Sony won’t test or certify all the titles and ask developers to do it; developers are responsible for certifying their own performance for BC if they want their title to be BC. This is a role typically handled by Sony for titles entering the market place.

 

[iroboto]

Because poorly written game that for example expects 30Hz refresh rate can break badly if game is suddenly rendering at 60Hz. Similarly maybe faster gpu mode breaks something and graphics are broken. Solution to this is gimped mode that mimicks ps4 performance.

Certifying would give sony way to force developers to fix broken code so faster ps5 mode can run the game without glitches. Selling point would be that even if you buy ps4 games they are better on ps5.

And if you don’t want to fix it ? Why is it assumed the developer has no say in this?

small studios working on other titles may not want to be bothered with going back and fixing shit. Sony can’t force them to, that’s why they are asking dev to re-cert. Ie; opt-in.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

You don’t need to certify again if it was 100% native. so that means Sony can’t guarantee it.

According to the article Sony won’t test or certify all the titles and ask developers to do it; developers are responsible for certifying their own performance for BC if they want their title to be BC. This is a role typically handled by Sony for titles entering the market place.

So to be clear, you don't anticipate the vast majority of PS4 games to work on the PS5?

 

[iroboto]

So to be clear, you don't anticipate the vast majority of PS4 games to work on the PS5?

To be clear I expect most of them to work. But that doesn’t mean it’s 100% the same as when it was certified on PS4. If it’s not the same experience then what or if it’s not working like a small but somewhere then what? They got to fix it. So basically you strong armed them into fixing a product they didn’t care to fix.

 

[Mitchings]

And here we go

4th June it is!

Can anyone else here hear a hint of the original PS / SCE startup sound in there?

Also, there is a black controller after all!

 

[Deleted member 86764]

To be clear I expect most of them to work. But that doesn’t mean it’s 100% the same as when it was certified on PS4. If it’s not the same experience then what ?

Then they'll function in a similar manner to those on the Pro that had no certification. I don't recall any broken games for that machine. Do you?

 

[manux]

And if you don’t want to fix it ? Why is it assumed the developer has no say in this?

small studios working on other titles may not want to be bothered with going back and fixing shit. Sony can’t force them to, that’s why they are asking dev to re-cert. Ie; opt-in.

If submission was done after july13th that developer would fail certification. Before that the developer can ignore and potentially loose some/all potential ps5 sales. Good ps5 version might be good idea to have even if it's ps4 game running in enhanced BC mode. Usually launch window games are limited and there could be a chance to gain more sales by supporting ps5 as well as possible.

 

[iroboto]

If submission was done after july13th that developer would fail certification. Before that the developer can ignore and potentially loose any ps5 sales. Good ps5 version might be good idea to have. Usually launch window games are limited and there could be a chance to gain more sales by supporting ps5 as well as possible.

Correct. Because Sony is putting a hard limit on new titles on PS4 that didn’t cert with PS5 post July 13th.

but if PSN@Home was suddenly resurrected and my game got put back on market for PS5 and I had to support it, god knows where my code is. I can’t. Who gets pressure for fixing busted shit? How do I even get paid?

 

[iroboto]

Then they'll function in a similar manner to those on the Pro that had no certification. I don't recall any broken games for that machine. Do you?

Yea because it was the same machine. It’s 2x PS4 taped together. They did not guarantee boost and not all titles worked with it.
PS5 is a new architecture entirely. These aren’t Apple to Apple comparisons here.

 

[disco_]

You don’t need to certify again if it was 100% native. so that means Sony can’t guarantee it.

According to the article Sony won’t test or certify all the titles and ask developers to do it; developers are responsible for certifying their own performance for BC if they want their title to be BC. This is a role typically handled by Sony for titles entering the market place.

Right. There's no need to certify an existing game as it will just run in legacy mode. But just as they did with the pro, where every game released in october 2016 and later had to have a PRO patch included, these games will be required to do the same.

Also, there is a black controller after all!

The controller is white. Light makes it seem black at some angles.

Then they'll function in a similar manner to those on the Pro that had no certification. I don't recall any broken games for that machine. Do you?

There are 2.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101/

 

[Mitchings]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

No cross gen for Sony first party game

I agree entirely with him.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Yea because it was the same machine. It’s 2x PS4 taped together. They did not guarantee boost and not all titles worked with it.
PS5 is a new architecture entirely. These aren’t Apple to Apple comparisons here.

2 games apparently. That's, what, a 99.9% compatibility?

 

[iroboto]

Right. There's no need to certify an existing game as it will just run in legacy mode.

That’s the idea. But I don’t know if legacy mode are for developers doing the minimum to ensure it works for PS5. Ie; re-cert for PS5.
I don’t know if they can just toss your game onto PS5 without publisher input.

 

[iroboto]

2 games apparently. That's, what, a 99.9% compatibility?

Legal is what is at stake.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Because poorly written game that for example expects 30Hz refresh rate can break badly if game is suddenly rendering at 60Hz. Similarly maybe faster gpu mode breaks something and graphics are broken. Solution to this is gimped mode that mimicks ps4 performance.

But you need to certify for that gimped mode!

Certifying would give sony way to force developers to fix broken code so faster ps5 mode can run the game without glitches.

The wording states that this is not for PS5 enhanced games, but just running PS4 games. Assuming the word is accurate, the situation here is that Sony requires devs to ensure they PS4 games run on PS5. Not run enhanced, but just plain run. That proves the BC is not 100% guaranteed, as if it was, if all PS4 games could just run in compatibility mode, Sony wouldn't need to request certification for new titles.

If Sony were only asking for PS5 enhancements to be included, you'd be spot on, but that's not the information we are given here. The information here is quite clearly, "not every game run problem free on PS5 in compatibility mode." That might be a tiny minority, we don't know. The only thing we do know it's not 100% thanks to BC mode being 100% BC. And working that backwards, we can also expect that not 100% of PS4 titles will run on PS5 because the BC mode is not 100% compatible. It might be 1 title that doesn't work, or 10, or 100. We don't know.

That's no different to XB where not every single game is BC. However, the difference here Sony are wanting devs to make their games BC, it seems, whereas on XB, MS are doing the BC work. If there's a multiplat game that doesn't run on either XBSX or PS5, and the dev is unable/unwilling to work on it to make it compatible, it won't be made compatible on PS5, but may be made compatible on XBSX because MS are doing the work, not the dev.

This does not make PS5 crap, nor BC rubbish, nor spell the end of Sony. There's no FUD here and this may not even be the case if there ends up being clarification against the wording of this singular source. It shows a difference in the handling of BC and introduces questions about the future, whether Sony have added content to the PS5 development process to make BC better on PS6 or not.

 

[iroboto]

MS had the same issues as Sony. But they’ve been doing this since 2015. They still have exception cases and will continue to. But they have been re-writing their contracts for BC support forward for all new titles since 2015. They may have gone back and done the earlier XBO titles as well.

You guys are taking this out of context like we are concern trolling. like BC is going to be terrible. This is reality of business. If you don’t have 100% native; ie like PS3 put in the PS2 chip, and you know there could be issues with my title for some reason and I have to re-cert; this is an opt-in.

the only thing E.G. had shown here is that July 13 forward all games are forced to opt-in.

MS has been the one to do the BC work and then obtain sign off from the developers. This is the only difference. If Sony is going to do the work more developers will likely sign off. If you are being asked to do the work to certify you may not want to. It’s that simple.

 

[manux]

But you need to certify for that gimped mode!

I think the alternative view is to say games certified after july13th are not allowed to use gimped mode. Hence they must be certified as only option is BC enhanced mode. We don't know which way of thinking is true. But it's easy to think glass half full/half empty until we know for sure.

 

[MrFox]

They need the firmware to "Improve stability of some software".