PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)

[Nesh]

Strangely Sony has said nothing about PS1 and PS2 compatibility even though PS1 at least is a pretty much straightforward feature
I hope they do add PS2 backwards comnpatibility

 

[baten]

Do you think it will be possible for PS4 to emulate PS2 without additional hardware?

it should, the pcsx2 has the following requirements:

Recommended
Windows Vista / Windows 7 (32bit or 64bit) with the latest DirectX
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo @ 3.2 GHz or better OR i3/i5/i7 @ 2,8 GHz or better OR AMD Phenom II @ 3,2 GHz or better
GPU: 8800gt or better (for Direct3D10 support)
RAM: 1GB on Linux/Windows XP, 2GB or more on Vista / Windows 7

But it needs to be re-written specifically for the ps4...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, because unlike PS3 RSX, this time the GPU has enough bandwitdth to emulate graphics synthesizer without any problems.

GPU BW wasn't the limiting factor preventing PS3 from emulating PS2. PS4 has enough grunt but it'd need Sony to care to write an emulator.

 

[Arwin]

GPU BW wasn't the limiting factor preventing PS3 from emulating PS2. PS4 has enough grunt but it'd need Sony to care to write an emulator.

I thought it was generally considered that emulating the 50GB/s (or whatever it was) EDRAM of the PS2 was 'difficult' on PS3, which only had two pools of memory with 22GB/s? There was talk of using the SPE's Local Store to help out (256GB/s) but that doesn't amount to 4MB/s either and would need some very creative programming.

So going to a system that has 176GB/s of bandwidth available right there should definitely makes things at the very least easier (but still not guaranteed to be easy for upscaling and such - 1920x1080 framebuffer effects probably require more bandwidth than the same at 720x480 - or whatever a PS2 game would use internally)

 

[DieH@rd]

IMO, Sony is most likely very interested in good PS2 and PS3 X86 emulator so that they can easily offer their games via Gaikai...

 

[scf]

Doesn't any PS3 model (including the ones without ps2 chips) emulate ps2 games in software? At least there are quite many ps2 games in psn, which of course work on any ps3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I thought it was generally considered that emulating the 50GB/s (or whatever it was) EDRAM of the PS2 was 'difficult' on PS3, which only had two pools of memory with 22GB/s?

PS2 didn't have any form of data compression across the bus. It was ERP or Fafalada that explained the real limits, being things like obscure GPU behaviour and emulating EE. It doesn't really matter though - there's easily enough grunt in PS4 to emulate PS2.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I thought it was generally considered that emulating the 50GB/s (or whatever it was) EDRAM of the PS2 was 'difficult' on PS3, which only had two pools of memory with 22GB/s? There was talk of using the SPE's Local Store to help out (256GB/s) but that doesn't amount to 4MB/s either and would need some very creative programming.

So going to a system that has 176GB/s of bandwidth available right there should definitely makes things at the very least easier (but still not guaranteed to be easy for upscaling and such - 1920x1080 framebuffer effects probably require more bandwidth than the same at 720x480 - or whatever a PS2 game would use internally)

In fact the european launch PS3 that were retrocompatible only had the graphics synthesizer. Emotion engine was software based emulated.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

it should, the pcsx2 has the following requirements:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo @ 3.2 GHz or better OR i3/i5/i7 @ 2,8 GHz or better OR AMD Phenom II @ 3,2 GHz or better


But it needs to be re-written specifically for the ps4...

I don´t know if it is a multithreaded emulator, but if not that cpu cloks could represent a problem with a 1,6GHz Jaguar core.

 

[scf]

It's multithreaded, but core frequency means more for proper emulation. For example it won't benefit from more than 4 cores at all.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

It's multithreaded, but core frequency means more for proper emulation. For example it won't benefit from more than 4 cores at all.

Well, anyway i have played PES 5 and Suikoden V perfectly in my Nexus 4 with an emulator. So, there would be no problem to do it in a PS4.

 

[TheWretched]

There's beem some recent hacks for PS3, which allowed "any" PS2 ISO to be started via the emulator. So it's safe to assume that Sony did try to emulate a full on PS2 on PS3, not just the subset sold on PSN. Though there's a lot of games that don't work well or don't work at all, which is to be expected.

So, it's just a question of willingness. They could as wel go the route of "PSN+ via Gaikai only" in the future.

 

[taisui]

Doesn't any PS3 model (including the ones without ps2 chips) emulate ps2 games in software? At least there are quite many ps2 games in psn, which of course work on any ps3.

I believe those PSN titles had been reworked to work on all SKUs PS3.

AFAIK for disc-based games, the first SKUs is fully compatible, the 2nd version which removed the EE but retains the GS was able to support limited library, and all later revisions removed that support. Besides, why support BC when you can resell the same game over and over and over again

 

[ERP]

Strangely Sony has said nothing about PS1 and PS2 compatibility even though PS1 at least is a pretty much straightforward feature
I hope they do add PS2 backwards comnpatibility

There is certainly enough power to emulate them, but there is a huge cost to testing any emulator, so I doubt they will consider the investment worthwhile.

 

[temesgen]

There's beem some recent hacks for PS3, which allowed "any" PS2 ISO to be started via the emulator. So it's safe to assume that Sony did try to emulate a full on PS2 on PS3, not just the subset sold on PSN. Though there's a lot of games that don't work well or don't work at all, which is to be expected.

So, it's just a question of willingness. They could as wel go the route of "PSN+ via Gaikai only" in the future.

It could be the opportunity cost, Sony doesn't make money allowing you to play PS2 games on the Ps3 or PS4 unless those games are being sold on PSN. The work involved with checking old games to make sure they are compatible is well documented so why would Sony want to incur that cost? HD releases on the other hand provide a source of revenue which justifies the investment in resources.

I think its a safe bet that when Sony releases their cloud gaming platform for PS3 and PS2 games on PS4 these games will have to purchased again... It sucks for us who have large libraries of games for old consoles that are no longer supported but there are no free lunches.... This is why sometimes I think I should just build a HTPC and buy titles off Steam when they are on sale - in the long run I'd probably end up a lot happier.

 

[jlippo]

There is certainly enough power to emulate them, but there is a huge cost to testing any emulator, so I doubt they will consider the investment worthwhile.

Indeed, I wonder if they just do blade server with a lot ps2 boards and use Gaikai streaming for ps1&2 BC.

 

[gurgi]

maybe they'd consider letting some 3rd party write an emulator app for ps4?

 

[Nesh]

There is certainly enough power to emulate them, but there is a huge cost to testing any emulator, so I doubt they will consider the investment worthwhile.

I wonder if the PS4 will still PS1 games btw.

I believe the biggest reason we wont be seeing BC with PS2 games is the fact that they want us to purchase games from PSN and use GAIKAI more than anything

 

[Inuhanyou]

Strangely Sony has said nothing about PS1 and PS2 compatibility even though PS1 at least is a pretty much straightforward feature
I hope they do add PS2 backwards comnpatibility

Yoshida has said that it would be easiest to bring PS1 and PS2 games over via software emulation ala PSN classics. But that no official decision was made yet.

 

[Grall]

maybe they'd consider letting some 3rd party write an emulator app for ps4?

They could write it themselves and sell it to their users, rather than just give it away with the console. That way they could offset costs involved with testing.