Phil Harrison's GDC keynote - Home, LittleBigPlanet & more

[Scott_Arm]

Not impressed by Home. It's an option for those that want it, but I really do not see what the interest is. Most of the features in Home could be achieved through a much more efficient and simplified interface. There are already plenty of games to fit the social networking needs of gamers, so I don't see what the big deal is. And I liked the part where they said it was free, but that people could buy new clothes and furniture from the store .... yeah, I'm going to be shelling out for virtual clothing. Advertisements that can be streamed straight into the game world! Wow, I can't wait to experience that. I see Home as a gimmicky revenue stream Sony. They're saying its great for you, but mostly its great for them.

That game by the Rag-doll Kung-Fu guys, on the other hand, is pretty awesome. I'm a big fan of their prior game, and this one looks like a lot of fun. It has a great style and a neat sandbox aspect. We'll see how easy it really is to create a level like the one they demonstrated. The features they showed were simple, but I wonder how easy it is to deform or animate terrain, etc. Should be a fantastic game - very original.

 

[mckmas8808]

The problem IMO is the person interested in this stuff is not the type to spend 600 dollars on a game machine. I remember the look of disgust on my brothers face when he needed to spend a 100 dollars to upgrade his video card for the sims2 for his wife and kid.
.

Dude there's thousands of people with a PS3 or will be getting one in EU that want this HOME service now. What are you talking about?

 

[mrcorbo]

After seeing the videos the HOME service is actually more interesting to me than it was at first. It is very reminiscent of the social aspects of an MMORPG. I saw enough people in these games just standing around chatting to know that this type of interaction does have its appeal. In fact, I have to wonder if SOE had a hand in developing this.

As for LittleBigPlanet I find it very impressive technically and artistically. And I like the unique spin on the genre.......but, that genre seems to be a platformer and this is a style of game that hasn't appealed to me since the early 90's.

Overall, it's an impressive showing for Sony. Lots to like here and be optimistic about if you are a PS3 owner or potential owner.

 

[Colourless]

Home looks interesting, but is the demographic that wants a virtual world/3d chat interface/social networking abilities actually the same people that are buying a PS3?

I am of course very negative on the whole having a virtual world just because you can. It's not a new idea and the reasons why they failed in the past haven't actually been solved. They tend to be cumbersome to use, and tend to be reasonably limiting in what you can do. Will Home allow for importing of custom content like Second Life or IMVU (that appears to be heavily advertised on Beyond3D for me)? If not then it's not actually all that attractive. You're limited to only the things that Sony provides.

If you are 'just' chatting, then the interface of a standard IM is much more suited (though doesn't look as cool). The amount of screen real estate given to text and dialog is usually fairly limited in 3d chat clients with silly things like floating text bubbles being used instead of a progressive log used by IMs or IRC. As soon as you get into a crowd of people there is text all over the screen and it's just a big mess.

/me points to this screenshot
http://www.shacknews.com/screens.x/ps3/PlayStation+Home/1/home_lounge/070308_ps3_home_lounge_01.jpg
Doesn't inspire confidence in me that they have solved the problems. Who said what when? It's not easy at all to follow the flow of conversations.

Oh and I know I'm just being picky now... but long hair, where is it?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Oh and I know I'm just being picky now... but long hair, where is it?

Didn't Sony tell you? You have to buy it from the online shop.

 

[Crayon]

That is just amazing. How the hell did they keep something this big a secret?

Shame on those trying to downplay the Home concept! It's obviously a bombshell.

 

[rounin]

Shame on those trying to downplay the Home concept! It's obviously a bombshell.

If anything, I would expect people to cast doubts on whether it can be executed properly. You know its a good concept when people start complaining of it being too complete (the internet must suck for them) and complaining that the parent commercial companies for trying to make money.

 

[Tap In]

That's what I'm saying. If you pay $50 you should have better service. No 360 games can beat Resistance in online service.
More PS3 games will have dedicated server on the way such as Warhawk.

yep resistance online is great, I've read.... but not all PS3 games are as good online... so no need to point fingers. If you don't like it, don't pay but both systems have their drawbacks but Live has the same features online in every game. That's worth $ to me to not have to think about , but hey $50 is one roll on the craps table for me.

 

[patsu]

home is nice and all. but whos really gonna use this? the only time im on the dash is when i want to do somthing productive quickly, this seems a little to gimicky. i can imagine my self using this thing on my ps3 for about a min then forgetting about it and if im forced to go through it, to do what i need its gonna be to cheesy and tedious for me. come one sony just give me some background download a regular menu and some more demos and ill be happy and a resistance co-op.

Use XMB. Download will be enhanced in firmware 1.6 (Supposedly due this month).
Have to talk to Insomniac, not Sony, for Resistance Co-op.

No matter what sony does the average person will think of a console as a game machine first and foremost. They can dress it up all they want but the average person is going to see it as a game machine.

A hardware's personality is defined by software. Should more non-games (but useful applications) be released for PS3, the perception even for an average person will change over time.

I think home can pay off in the future when the price point gets to 199 dollar mark. I just don't see a ton of hardcore gamers who are the guys who would buy a 599 dollar game machine spending thier time decorating a virtual apartment. I hope the data is stored with sony because if I did do it I would not want it leaching off my limited internet connection.

If we keep seeing the crowd as hardcore gamers, both Sony and us will lose out in the long run.

At this point, I think they are targeting the MySpace and SecondLife crowd. This includes the teens, early adopters and the tech savvies (even in their thirties). Gaming is only one of their past-time. The rest of us who don't see the benefit/value now will get rolled in over time.

Personally, I may do some light personalization for PS Home but that's it. However I'm quite interested in any in-game integration with my Home (e.g., export game video to the TV). The metaphor can help to simplify concepts of access control (If you put it on the TV, it can be viewed by others) across games. Otherwise, just export it to the HDD and access it from XMB.

I am also interested in a Resistance clan clubhouse, plus any integration with a clan website and the GAF Resistance thread (Remember HTML is one of the supported "surfaces"), so I can view related resources all in one place. Today, some of us who have their PS3s near their computers, post a note on the GAF forum to call for arms. The others are "too lazy" to walk over/upstairs/downstairs to do so. It would be great if all of these can be done on a PS3.

For clan site maintenance, HTML is still rather technical/inconsistent for an average user (even with Windows WYSIWYG tools like Dreameaver and Javascript TinyMCE). A simpler and consistent builder a la Home and LBP can come in very handy... especially if it can auto-generate an organic and beautiful HTML micro-site for us. This will save the clan leader 10-20 bucks a month (assuming if Sony doesn't charge) ?

These are just random ideas... but if Sony can keep a close pulse on its community in a rich environment, there are opportunities for win-win arrangements.

EDIT:

If you are 'just' chatting, then the interface of a standard IM is much more suited (though doesn't look as cool). The amount of screen real estate given to text and dialog is usually fairly limited in 3d chat clients with silly things like floating text bubbles being used instead of a progressive log used by IMs or IRC. As soon as you get into a crowd of people there is text all over the screen and it's just a big mess.

/me points to this screenshot
http://www.shacknews.com/screens.x/p..._lounge_01.jpg
Doesn't inspire confidence in me that they have solved the problems. Who said what when? It's not easy at all to follow the flow of conversations.

This is very true, but it doesn't mean the whole concept has to go down the toilet. They can offer alternative views under certain circumstances to make the whole thing fit. This is a virtual world.

 

[Zassk]

Second Life has only 57k subscribers today. Reference. In terms of online communities, Second Life barely rates as a blip. How would anyone think a Second Life clone would be a system-seller?

Sony's own Everquest 2, which is considered either a failure or a modest success depending on whom you ask, has around 6x as many subscribers as Second Life. To me, Home looks like Everquest 2 without the fun or fantasy.

Sure, there is no subscription fee with Home, but there is a huge up-front fee that any PC-based Sims type of game doesn't have.

If there is an actual business case for this, i.e. people actually want to do this stuff and are willing to pay for it (up-front or subscription), then maybe we'll see a "Sims Live" on the competition in the near future...?

I'll hazard a guess that the Sims franchise won't be hitting the PS3 after this.

 

[homy]

yep resistance online is great, I've read.... but not all PS3 games are as good online... so no need to point fingers. If you don't like it, don't pay but both systems have their drawbacks but Live has the same features online in every game. That's worth $ to me to not have to think about , but hey $50 is one roll on the craps table for me.

Suppose you like the 360 online so much (few advantage features), you'd keep it for 5 years.
5 years x $50 = $250 => total investment = $399 + $250 = $649

You pay more than the cost of the PS3 and you don't have bluray player.

Sony online features will get patched soon so for an average Joe the PS3 is a better choice.

 

[Lycan]

Home is really ambitious, very cool !
As for LBP...words simply fall of describing what I really felt...That's the most jaw-dropping, smile arousing, laughter inducing, coolest concept I've seen in a long...looooooooooooong time !

 

[DemoCoder]

SL only has 57k *premium* concurrent customers right now, but it has far more users who don't pay because they don't want to buy virtual real estate.

Still, 57k users who paid for nothing more than the right to own a plot of land is an interesting figure, and if you look at the people who flipped SL real estate for real cash, apparently these 57k people are shelling out alot of money.

You have to ask yourself how many users would MySpace have if they charged a monthly fee.

As for the chat interface, there are many ways to fix that, as will evolve over time:
1) a chat window on the virtual PSP ala what you get in MMORPG's like WoW and EQ. Aggregate all nearby text messages into the window

2) private rooms

3) attention/focus: allow users to focus on just a few people, make the rest of the talk bubbles mostly transparent. You can see them pop up in the background, but can't read them unless you include them in your focus. I can see many ways to do this, drag select, etc

If Sony opens up HOME to external apps and content, it will drive a network effort as people design services for it to tap into the huge potential user base. HTML only goes so far. They obviously need a form of Flash/Javascript/Web3D/VRML that allows web applications to export 3D objects and attach behaviors to them.


Sure, people have attempted virtual worlds before and failed. And they will continue to keep trying, and sooner or later they will succeed. There is a creative aspect to this that the commenters here fail to recognize. The web, blogs, youtube, et al have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is an enormous amount of pent-up creative energy in the general population that was untapped just 15 years ago due to the costs and difficulty for average people to collaborate and share content worldwide with people of like interests. But in my teenager heyday, an enormous amount of relatively non-technical people were so enlivened by creating content on social MUDs like MuSH, MuF, MOO, that they braved the difficults of learning esoteric macro languages, even FORTH in order to trick out there environment.

I think the naysayers will be proven wrong, if not by Sony, then by the next arrival on the block. The current craze over web2.0-social networking and content syndication is just the tip of the iceberg. Human beings are visual/spatial oriented social creatures, and I think there is an untapped killer nexus there. There are people who play games like WoW for the killing/adventure, but there are also alot more who just sit around socializing and go on adventures just to meet people. I think games like LBP combined with services like HOME will accomplish much of the same, but for casual gamers and socializers who care more about cooperation and human contact than slaying monsters and powerleveling.

 

[Carl B]

the XMB is still there. You must visit XMB first to launch HOME, and we still saw the video/image/music viewer, plus Store.

You people are acting like Sony is going to delete the XMB and when you boot up the PS3, you'll be in HOME and have to go to your apartment to do anything. It takes some serious FUD-twisting sentiment to think that Sony is going to remove all the navigation except HOME.

I mean, really, do you think someone wanting to watch a BRD will have to go into HOME, walk up to a 3D TV to mess with BRD settings? Do you really believe Sony has no human user interface designers on its staff, or no one with even half a clue who would tell management that making the minimal amount of effort needed to accomplish anything so tedious would be annoying?

I think it's patently obvious that HOME doesn't replace web browsers, or XMB, or quick text menus, but is an additional social interface for when you want to do things with other people in a shared experience.

*********************************************

Well, I was going to write something along the same vein as this, but thought I'd quote Demo and save the trouble. Seriously though, it's surprising how some people are lambasting Home as if they're going to be forced to use it or something; don't worry, the XMB is still there - and to hear some talk, you'd think them totally unaware that a lot of this functionality is right there - in a very easy to navigate minimalist fashion - right now.

Home is extra, it's bonus. It's just eye-candy and online networking/socializing... a nice visual layer to experience all the 'norm' through, and share what's on your HDD with friends. Personally, I'm excited about it, and will be decking out my apartment (and avatar) to reflect the grandeur that will be my online presence. That said, I don't expect to be spending much time in there roaming, but I will always keep things 'cool' in terms of media options and artwork in my place for friends who stop by while I've got my PS3 booted up. That's just my aesthetic.

Now... I have to say I sense a recurrent theme here revolving around the service - that of:

$600 for this? Who's going to use this? Gamers don't want this. Etc etc...

I'm going to say that these comments more often come from folk who don't currently own PS3s, and from their posts in other threads, can't really see any *other* reasons why people would plunk down ~$600 for the console either. Guys - yes, this will generate excitement. Yes, even among those who would pay $600. What kinds of people are these? Well, different people than yourselves - and that's really the only way to frame it. I don't expect anyone to run out and get a PS3 *only* for this, although I'm sure there will be some, but it's just an added feature of the console. No doubt Sony wants owners to increasingly identify with their PS account, become more 'stable' in terms of community and brand loyalty, and have a launchpad for serving up ads, product placement, microtransactions, mini games, movie trailers, etc etc... but you know what? I like the concept. And I'm totally cool with those that don't also - I understand why you think it's a waste. It's just when there are all these questions of "who would ever use this...?" floating around, the answer is as easy as: several of the people posting in this thread.

 

[patsu]

Second Life has only 57k subscribers today. Reference. In terms of online communities, Second Life barely rates as a blip. How would anyone think a Second Life clone would be a system-seller?

SecondLife has severe technical infrastructure problems which limit their growth. What they have demonstrated though is, like Sims, the interface can work (even for long hour of use). Plus some are willing to pay to personalize and create content.

Sony's own Everquest 2, which is considered either a failure or a modest success depending on whom you ask, has around 6x as many subscribers as Second Life. To me, Home looks like Everquest 2 without the fun or fantasy.

Sure, there is no subscription fee with Home, but there is a huge up-front fee that any PC-based Sims type of game doesn't have.

If there is an actual business case for this, i.e. people actually want to do this stuff and are willing to pay for it (up-front or subscription), then maybe we'll see a "Sims Live" on the competition in the near future...?

I'll hazard a guess that the Sims franchise won't be hitting the PS3 after this.

Sims Live will not offer integration with other PS3 games. The point of PS Home is not to become a game in itself, but as an open platform for entertainment related activities.

As for whether it's a system seller, I think we can only answer that after it's launched. I have no idea myself too.

 

[nonamer]

Second Life has only 57k subscribers today. Reference. In terms of online communities, Second Life barely rates as a blip. How would anyone think a Second Life clone would be a system-seller?

Sony's own Everquest 2, which is considered either a failure or a modest success depending on whom you ask, has around 6x as many subscribers as Second Life. To me, Home looks like Everquest 2 without the fun or fantasy.

Sure, there is no subscription fee with Home, but there is a huge up-front fee that any PC-based Sims type of game doesn't have.

If there is an actual business case for this, i.e. people actually want to do this stuff and are willing to pay for it (up-front or subscription), then maybe we'll see a "Sims Live" on the competition in the near future...?

I'll hazard a guess that the Sims franchise won't be hitting the PS3 after this.

http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/02/25/today-in-second-life-saturday-24-february-2007/

Second Life has 4 million subscribers.

 

[mckmas8808]

Will the makers of Second Life be able to advertise their game as much as Sony can do their new XMB service icon?

I mean by 2008 more than likely every PS3 will have the "HOME" icon on the XMB crossbar. Every PS3 with a broadband internet connection can access the PS3 universe.

 

[Onlooker1]

Second Life has 4 million subscribers.

SL is the king of the press release but actually it does not have 4 million subscribers, it had 4 million accounts created, of which over 80% are abandoned and many of the rest are in the process of being abandoned (active userbase depends on time horizon chosen). The vast majority do not buy anything in second life, they sign up to see what the fuss is about.

Go login and look at number online. It is pitiful. Compare to world of warcraft.

 

[silhouette]

I am an 360 user, so I am trying to get over my bias with asking this question to myself: If this application is released on 360, would I be excited? I guess the answer is 'yes' in the beginning. Something new is always cool. Unfortunately, the more I think, the less I find this thing appealing to myself, and I am not even a hard-core gamer.

Why less appealing? When I look at my use of non-gaming side of 360, I found out that I only frequently use messaging (mostly voice messages), that's it. (Oh, I also sometimes use the video chat with my buddies living 6K miles away from me, but that's rare). If I am doing neither of these things, I am jumping to a game directly. This is what a game console is for. If I would like to spend time to get socalize, I will do it outside my house. If I am going to play pool/billard, I would go to a bar. Take my friends with me, or find and meet new ppl. If I am going to spend time decorating somewhere, it is going to be my actual apartment. Why should I do that in virtual life? I guess that's why each of these virtual worlds more or less fails. Because, you have 0 objective and why do something in virtual world when you can do all of them in real life? Btw, some ppl mention Sims, MMOs etc. All of these 'games' have objectives/quests/etc. You play them because you still have a reason to play. At the end, everything Sony showed today (except LBP, which is really cool) the only thing I am interested is streaming media directly from my hard-drive. This is really a cool application and would enrich any video conversation you have with a buddy. So, at the end, I am not sure if this becomes a killer application to PS3. It can become something ppl get excited for and play with it for a while, but then never touch afterwards.

However, kudos to Sony for at last allowing user created content in a game and then present it with a myspace like experience. MS has been keeping saying that since the day 1 for 360, and now it seems Sony will do that first after 2 years. It seems MS will loose velocity_girl to Sony if they do not bring something new to 360.

 

[Crossbar]

I just watched the GDC presentation.

Bloody impressive, I´d say, I see many scenarios where you will socialize online with your friends in completely new manner, such as you can walk into a theater and watch a new film-trailer together with friends and voice chat while watching it and then do something completely different.

Does anyone remember the Magic Mirror demo of Cell? Imagine what home will look like when you have an Eyetoy connected that will map your face to your character in real-time. Maybe the virtual worlds will become too real.