Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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Oh wow, this thread is full of awesome.
"Natal uses 10-15% of the xbox360's cpu power"
Oh it can never have impressive looking games since they max out the 360 already.
"PSMove uses one of the ps3 SPU"
Nah, its the reserve SPU.
Anyway no game uses the SPU to maximum yet.
Absolutely awesome logic and reasoning right there, totally full proof.
"Natal uses 10-15% of the xbox360's cpu power"
Oh it can never have impressive looking games since they max out the 360 already.
"PSMove uses one of the ps3 SPU"
Nah, its the reserve SPU.
Anyway no game uses the SPU to maximum yet.
Absolutely awesome logic and reasoning right there, totally full proof.
I think the problem is the vendors didn't break down the numbers. e.g., I have seen claims of 10-15% to 30% CPU usage for Natal, but doing what ? It also didn't help when they allegedly lowered the number of joints for the body flailing demo.
The same goes for PS3, but Sony said more in this area. Essentially, full body tracking will take a lot of resources (EyeToy took 25% of PS2 according to Dr. Marks), but tracking the Move controller is low/insignificant, according to the Sony duo. We also know from old slides that Dr. Marks worked on a 1 SPU image processing library for PS Eye (Not only for Move controller).
In any case, we can see the apps for ourselves. PS Eye is out for 2-3 years already. You can find natural UI and augmented reality apps in the wild today. We will also see head tracking with GT5, Move with Socom 4, later on.
When MS shows their hand, I am sure they will have big titles demonstrating Natal integration too.
I am curious whether my PS3 will blow up if I try to do PS Move and 3D vision together. I also wonder about running Torne DVR with PS Move games together.
The same goes for PS3, but Sony said more in this area. Essentially, full body tracking will take a lot of resources (EyeToy took 25% of PS2 according to Dr. Marks), but tracking the Move controller is low/insignificant, according to the Sony duo. We also know from old slides that Dr. Marks worked on a 1 SPU image processing library for PS Eye (Not only for Move controller).
In any case, we can see the apps for ourselves. PS Eye is out for 2-3 years already. You can find natural UI and augmented reality apps in the wild today. We will also see head tracking with GT5, Move with Socom 4, later on.
When MS shows their hand, I am sure they will have big titles demonstrating Natal integration too.
I am curious whether my PS3 will blow up if I try to do PS Move and 3D vision together. I also wonder about running Torne DVR with PS Move games together.
Weren't those all said by separate people?
I said it's probably the reserve SPU, but I didn't say any of the other things.
So the failure of logic seems to be on you.
If you really want to elevate the thread, you could try contributing your own worthwhile, reasoned opinions substantiated with quotes and references instead of just adding to the noise...
If you think I haven't been trying to do that then you should have a look at my posts in this thread. I think you should look at other posts instead of mine.
My main problem with this thread is that every information about Natal is treated with skepticism or at least it is insinuated while the move is met with hugs and kisses.
Don't get me wrong, I understand being excited about a particular product but you don't have to be critical of one in other to appreciate the other.
FYI, I do have the ps3 so its not a case of fanboyism, but as forums go, I hold B3D to a certain standard but it seems to be falling of late.
I think if you read more carefully, you will see negative and uncertain posts about PS Move too. The main difference is we know more about PS Move than Natal at this point. It's easy to reason about what it can or cannot do. Human generally react negatively to things they don't understand. Plus MS themselves are learning how to market Natal.
I believe people may underestimate a controller-free system. You don't need a lot of fine-grained data to do amazing things. EyeToy/PSEye didn't have 3D pointing or orientation, but it can do difficult tasks like natural interface UI, speech recognition, sketch recognition, full body tracking, head tracking, facial recognition, and more. In many cases, the sophisticated needs can be simplified (e.g., I still don't quite know how to use PS Move's absolute positioning).
I think we will see some outside-the-box ideas from MS. Without finger tracking, they can use larger grain gestures (e.g., form an X with arms). They can also partner with a 3rd party to replicate the Wiimote/PS Move experience. As usual, Natal should be more integrated and smooth than PS Move. It looks like Sony is sticking with their uneven support for PS Move. There is little or no standardization across titles.
I believe people may underestimate a controller-free system. You don't need a lot of fine-grained data to do amazing things. EyeToy/PSEye didn't have 3D pointing or orientation, but it can do difficult tasks like natural interface UI, speech recognition, sketch recognition, full body tracking, head tracking, facial recognition, and more. In many cases, the sophisticated needs can be simplified (e.g., I still don't quite know how to use PS Move's absolute positioning).
I think we will see some outside-the-box ideas from MS. Without finger tracking, they can use larger grain gestures (e.g., form an X with arms). They can also partner with a 3rd party to replicate the Wiimote/PS Move experience. As usual, Natal should be more integrated and smooth than PS Move. It looks like Sony is sticking with their uneven support for PS Move. There is little or no standardization across titles.
I did not get it, until I had an american explain to me about the tootsie-pop commercials.
Didn't have tootsie-pops where I grew up.
http://kotaku.com/5502008/the-possi...f-playstations-move-according-to-the-inventor
A nice article on it. Odd Sony would choose to do it with a site that constantly demonstrates their hatred of Sony...
A nice article on it. Odd Sony would choose to do it with a site that constantly demonstrates their hatred of Sony...
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You can see in the pictures. They are trigger shaped.
Here's a side view of PS Move:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/03/psmove-side-every-1-1.jpg
You can see the analog trigger clearly.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/03/psmove-side-every-1-1.jpg
You can see the analog trigger clearly.
It seems par for the course to me. One assumes the average poster on B3D is going to be pretty skeptical of unexplained tech, such as 3d cameras or streaming games (OnLive!) etc. At the moment we have more info on Move than Natal, meaning we can form educated opinions on what Move is capable of or not and compare it directly to Wii, whereas with Natal we're somewhat guessing, especially when we hear that the original spec has been reduced (which isn't uncommon for products).
Besides which, putting aside your sweeping generalisations about all Move comments are met with hugs and kisses, what exactly is there to hug and kiss/be skeptical of anyway? I think everyone here is in fairly vocal agreement that it'll all come down to the software anyway! Opportunities of the tech are practically worthless - see Sixaxis for an underused tech that failed to meet most of the hopes of us pre-release fans who saw all it's potential!
(((interference)))
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Actually, that's pretty much true, I doubt that any PS3 game maxes out every SPU, it's simply too hard.
The 360 is much easier to use all three cores, it's more a case of using the available power more efficiently with the 360 rather than figuring out how to tap into any unused power (as is the case with the SPUs on the PS3)
You don't see many 360 developers saying how they've only utilised x% of the 360's power.
Natal seems to definitely have a larger impact on the 360s resources than Move does on the PS3. Look at Halo Reach, Bungie played around with implementing Natal but left it out, this was most likely due to Natal's onboard processing being removed. As if Natal support cost nothing, Bungie (and MS) would likely add some cool feature that would use it, mainly to boost the Natal attach rate.
In addition, Move is said to run on a single SPU, but it doesn't necessarily reserve it completely, or even use a majority of the time on that SPU.
And people are rightly skeptical of Natal. I think in a lot of places, in the press and on other forums, people are far too optimistic about Natal while PS Move bears an unearnerd "Sony" stigma. Natal is the unproven technology with unproven gameplay applications and its capabilities seem to diminish every time new information comes out. On the other hand, we've had a very good idea about what PS Move's technical capabilities were from the reveal at E3 2009, and based on how it worked we could guess it didn't add a significant processing burden to the Cell CPU and probably didn't introduce appreciable input lag. Sony didn't really demonstrate any new capabilities at GDC this year, they just showed off some more cool ideas they had on how to use it.
And people are rightly skeptical of Natal. I think in a lot of places, in the press and on other forums, people are far too optimistic about Natal while PS Move bears an unearnerd "Sony" stigma. Natal is the unproven technology with unproven gameplay applications and its capabilities seem to diminish every time new information comes out. On the other hand, we've had a very good idea about what PS Move's technical capabilities were from the reveal at E3 2009, and based on how it worked we could guess it didn't add a significant processing burden to the Cell CPU and probably didn't introduce appreciable input lag. Sony didn't really demonstrate any new capabilities at GDC this year, they just showed off some more cool ideas they had on how to use it.
Can you give me a link to that please, I will be most grateful.
(((interference)))
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Can you give me a link to that please, I will be most grateful.
Apart from other rumours, there was this:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2009395945_brier29.html
Why did they go from 'absolutely' seeing Reach could have some form on Natal implementation to no Natal support?
Pretty much because Natal processing was offloaded to the 360
You're inferring too much. Going from a positive position to non-inclusions doesn't provide any insight into why Natal would be dropped. It could be due to different reasons, not least it just wasn't a good fit for their game, or deadlines have them putting it on the back burner. Now granted it could well be because of the processing overhead, but it's wrong to cite the studio president's statement of proof of the fact.
dragonelite
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If they would implement natal i could see them using it for maybe theater 2.0 or forge 2.0 but not for gameplay its way to competitive. Maybe a hybrid solution for gameplay like tilt head to right to lean right or hand gestures for squad members. But no natal only gameplay.
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