Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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ShadowRunner
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I very much doubt any multiplatform game is making extensive use of the SPUs for graphics rendering. The loss of one SPU isnt likely to effect graphics significantly, the remaining SPUs should be able to take up the slack unless you believe MW2 is using more than 80% of each.
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(((interference)))
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I think the bigger problem will be trying to get the 360 version working with Natal's 15% overhead (which is not just CPU usage either)
Which is only one reason why I doubt they'd try to add Natal support at all. More importantly is the lack of a clear, effective way to control an FPS with full body motion control. Maybe they could add token features like a Burnout-style crash/kill cam, but in that case it's just being used as a webcam.
(((interference)))
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True, but MS could always make Natal work with a sub controller with analog stick + buttons, couldn't they?
On the overhead issue, it's quite surprising to see that Fable 3 will only use Natal to add some extra interactivity (likely for the 'Touch' feature) and yet the whole game will have to run with 15% less processing power just due to Natal support - affecting players who will never use Natal.
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They have that option, and I expect them to introduce some form of Natal controller eventually, but at launch, so far it's been positioned as the controllerless interface, so by MS's own marketing strategy they can't offer a controller. Every launch game/experience has to be sans controller.
That said, there's nothing to stop them adding optional Natal support for existing controller franchises like Halo. I'm not sure how Natal would be integrated for targeting, but you could convey cover/ducking from movements which might be good, having to get your head down for real when the virtual bullets start flying!
That said, there's nothing to stop them adding optional Natal support for existing controller franchises like Halo. I'm not sure how Natal would be integrated for targeting, but you could convey cover/ducking from movements which might be good, having to get your head down for real when the virtual bullets start flying!
Well again, this is being touted as 'no more need for a controller' - and WRT Fable 3, why would the whole game have to run with 15% left for Natal...surely just the Natal parts will require that? I should imagine those sections will be 'seperate' to the rest of the game.
(((interference)))
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Yeah, they wouldn't be able to add accessories until later.
Can Natal still detect fingers? Maybe u could use finger gestures to control FPSs.
Looking at how Move can be used to play Starcraft, wouldn't Natal be ideal for console RTSs like Halo Wars (much like RUSE played on Surface).
With Halo i'd be cool if u could use Natal to throw grenades, or for SWAT hand gestures/ pointing etc. the ability to control your Spartan avatar through motion capture would be a boon for machinima as well.
It's not realistic to expect that sort of thing from Natal (well the Machinima could work, but I don't think there's a large customer base). I don't see XBox360 developers crippling their FPS's just to push Natal. PS3 move ... like Wii, but better. Natal ... even more casual than Wii, unless they add a controller (which in the short term would be admitting defeat).
But how do you switch out of gun mode and into grenade throwing mode (and back)? How can the system tell you're pointing your squad in a direction and not your weapon? Pointing is only a tiny part of usual game interfaces. It's easy to forget that these interactions or mode shifts need to be triggered in some fashion, one that does not intefere with the pointing function in the ideal case. Making a gesture is a bad trigger action because it invalidates your pointing direction (on the same hand).
How do you even shoot? Even to just pause your game you already need a voice command or fall back on a traditional pad controller, and you're talking about games where you have to simultaneously aim and strafe and shoot and jump and manage a weapon loadout. None of this will be possible ... short of the camera tracking your fingers as they interact with analog sticks and buttons on a controller.
Even the Wii remote, as limiting as it feels a lot of times, has four buttons and a d-pad in immediate reach, and three more buttons for non-time-critical/system interactions. Natal has zero. Expect any games for it to be either simplified to the extreme or rely heavily on voice commands. Neither idea appeals to me at all.
We've heard they have finger detection, but haven't seen examples other than that concept finger-fighter game, and looking at the tech it seems unlikely they'll have finger tracking at normal playing distance; finger tracking is probably an alternate mode where you move the camera up clsoe to the fingers.
Natal could actually offer a better FPs experience by having a virtual rifle held two-handed. Natal could determine the rifle trajectory from the line traced from back hand to fore hand. You would break the rifle-hold stance to do other things like pull levers or chuck grenades, which should be pretty robust to track. Ideally they'd want a rifle peripheral to hold, and it could have a thumb-nub on the front for moving. Camera view would probably need to be locked to reticule. They could go to town and add a thumbstick on the stock too, but that's asking even more of the gamer!
I'd much rather simply point with my index finger and yell "pew pew" (or move my thumb up and down) than try to aim down an invisible iron sight ... and I imagine all the casuals would agree with me. The casuals won't appreciate the extra realism of a virtual gun, they'll be content with the kid style hand pistol which is far more convenient. The gamers will want a real controller (they might still like the grenade throwing, but they will want the physical gun controller).
Rurouni
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I imagine it would be rather funny if you were surrounded by lots of enemies and only have hand gun available.... pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew... saliva will be all over the place and probably will be a bit out of breath, and water is mandatory.
I suppose different weapon will use different voice as a trigger, so machine gun would be easier in that situation.... ratatatatatatatatatata... or just a vibrating long rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Voice-activated firing won't work in a real life gaming situation where there may be stray noise coming from other sources than the player (parents, siblings, other people in the house, radios, TV etc). I'd say voice-activated anything would have relatively high chance of "misfiring" unless you've got your own pad to live in where you can control the soundscape.
Besides, as a gamer, I really can imagine situations a little less embarrassing than screaming commands at my xbox console...
Besides, as a gamer, I really can imagine situations a little less embarrassing than screaming commands at my xbox console...
Neither noise-making nor thumb-wiggling strike me as fabvourable with the hard-core FPS crowd. And tracking a pointing finger isn't possible in the current known implementation of Natal. It has hand position but probably not hand direction and certainly not digit tracking. The resolution probably isn't there to determine an extended finger pointing pretty straight towards the camera, and even if it can determine the extended finger's position, it couldn't accurately determine direction. Perhaps if the arm were kept rigid, the direction of the forearm could be used.
I'd have thought so, plus adapting their body tracking to work with hands. I suppose there is the option of someone playing a Natal FPS with an extended-finger gun 50cm from the Natal camera sat on a coffee table. Actually that still shouldn't work. Isn't depth accuracy to 10cm? Nope, having a Google, it's more likely 1cm. That still leaves very little information to derive a direction from though at a distance. Consider you finger pointing slight away from directly at camera. The side of the finger will offer several samples of 1cm accuracy steps from which a direction could be calculated, but there'd be quite some room for error at +/- 1.5 mm. Maybe suitable for target selection, and couple with a degree of auto-aim it may work well, but I'm unconvinced an accurate pointer could be made out of the finger with just the z-camera.
I think selling a controller-less interface to the hard core FPS crowd is a lost battle from the beginning.
True, but not really applicable to XB360 gaming given the typical XB360 setup.
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