Wii Motion+ requires you to lay the handset upside down on the floor every once in a while to calibrate.
Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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Iron Tiger
Regular
I'm talking about moving a character in a 3D in a manner that's akin to using a mouse. If I'm playing Silent Hill and shaking skin monkeys off, yes I have to recalibrate by pointing at the Sensor Bar.
That motion is small and quick, and the "button presses" are automatically registered as the mouse loses sight of the surface then regains it. Doing it in the air with your whole arm won't be quick, and you'd have to manually press a button.
We may have adapted to the limitations.
I think it's a little more than that though. According to studies, some users don't even realize that the menu bar may change contextually because the usage model flows naturally/intuitively into their workflow. The lifting and uneven movement is more noticeable with the original "ball" mouse. The newer ones are smoother and easier to handle. I know I will fidget more if I use a low quality mouse today (e.g., get entangled in mouse cable, clicking doesn't feel tight).
The custom mouse sensitivity panel also helps to reduce the need to lift the mouse.
The Wiimote recalibration breaks the flow, just like if the mouse loses its position.
Ah, you and me are talking about different things then. I think Nintendo needs to get rid of the recalibration.
That seems an extreme POV! From my perspective, many posting here are taking a fairly cautious wait-and-see approach to these devices, with plenty of gaming history to illustrate the best-laid-plans can turn out turkeys. And while waiting, we consider the pros and cons of the system. What's wrong with that? Should we herald Natal as the next great thing having had no experience just because the media says it's great? I trust I'm not alone in experiencing media-hyped creations that really haven't floated my boat! Wii itself, huge success as it is, isn't offering me much of interest. I question how much Natal and Arc will too. I believe Natal could have me more excited than it has, because what MS has shown so far hasn't offered enough of a convincing argument, hence the desire for more content!
Iron Tiger
Regular
Also, Motion Plus isn't used to move a camera/pointer. I asked one of The Conduit guys at E3 why they weren't going to have Motion Plus support for when you pointed off screen (out of range of the Sensor Bar), and he said it didn't work the same, plus the SDK was forcing the M+ to shut off if the Wiimote lost sight of the Sensor Bar for more than 8 seconds. Wii Sports Resort doesn't seem to have that limitation (though you do have to recalibrate by pointing at the screeen and pressing A to begin a sword play round), but it seems Nintendo doesn't want devs to use the gyros in that way.
Iron Tiger
Regular
If it's anything like the RE: Chronicles type of light gun games, it will use the camera for pointing instead of the gyros. It will have all the relative positioning data, won't have the player controlling the camera, and the player will be accustomed and willing to make broad motions within a confined range (as that's par for the course in traditional light gun games).
The function of the button press is to stop the game tracking your movement, so you can reposition yourself. It's two things you have to consciously do, which in itself breaks immersion. Also, you have to stop playing every time you need to recalibrate, and that just breaks the gameplay.
Difference between Arc and the Wii remote are that one uses the camera for angle determination in a limited range while the other uses it for absolute positioning. So for the system that uses the camera for absolute positioning to work out where it's pointing it needs to take the position then the angle from the sensors and then work out where it's pointing, If the sensors that detect angle get confused or are inaccurate then it will have problems.
again lifting a mouse stops the game tracking your movement, you stop playing for a moment to recalibrate. only difference is pressing a button rather that lifting.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
The demo actually calculates the velocity of the body part that hits the balls.
In one of the articles I read, one of the guys playing it mentioned he "invented" a new move. Using a straight on hip thrust (sexual innuendo included) to propel the bell.
I think the bigger problem with that particular demo is there's just too many balls. As a spectator watching it in a video it just seems to messy. But you don't get that same impression by reading what people who have actually used it say.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Having used 3D "air" mice, the recentering is in a whole different league from re-positioning a mouse. I use an accurate 3D "air" mouse for my HTPC in addition to the remote, and it's just in a whole different league of non-intuitiveness than a mouse.
It's in no way suitable for gaming. For it to be suitable for gaming there would need to be a method to automatically recalibrate relative positioning constantly.There's where the camera would come into play for Wii controls and Arc controls.
Regards,
SB
Damn I need to find that video of a laser projector mounted on a gun that tracks it's position and adjusts the display accordingly. I was looking for it earlier but couldn't find it. The point with that was that even though it could be used 360 in a room they had an optional button for "lifting it into the 4th dimension" so people could just use half a room. It didn't seem to be a problem and the experience still looked fun.
LightHeaven
Regular
I think that there's a lot regarding moving speed missing from this ricochet demo. It looks like the character doesn't actually move as fast as you if you make a fast movement...
LightHeaven
Regular
But this requires calibration and that the player stands still where the camera told him so.
The jump natal would have from it is that more than one person would be able to play, anywhere in the room, even sited on the sofa.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Actually, funnily one of the things I'm most looking forward too with Natal is handsfree control of my 360. Mainly just for the cool factor.
But one of the most annoying things when playing splitscreen is how long it takes for everyone to sign in etc. With face recognition it'd be a sinch.
But one of the most annoying things when playing splitscreen is how long it takes for everyone to sign in etc. With face recognition it'd be a sinch.
Seriously, do you think you won't need a controller?
I cannot see how this is possible without manic arm movements - the Natal (IMHO) is just a slightly better eyetoy - I've not seen anything that looks more impressive - the Milo demo was clearly stuff of dreams and highly scripted (think back in the days of text adventures, write what the software expects and it's a bit 'wow' type in something else and 'do not understand command' is what you end up with. I can see this being a major problem with Milo type games - esp. in the 'now' - and WRT to 'no controller' - I just don't see it being *that* accurate.
The reason this has had so much hype is simply because MS have bought some hype in Peter Molyneux, the master of over hype. If MS aren't careful they will suffer the same 'backlash' Sony has had regarding over promising and under delivering.
I also love the way people completely dismiss the Arc as 'just Wiimote+' - yes it's very similar, but it offers clear advantages (shoudl it work to it's potential) and it'll be more likely to be implemented by devs.
We talked about head tracking vs 3D vision before. Portable consoles (in this case, DSi) would be a great place for these innovations (using gyro instead of head tracking):
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/02/26/hidden-3d-pictures-uses-dsi-camera-to-add-a-3d-effect/
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/02/26/hidden-3d-pictures-uses-dsi-camera-to-add-a-3d-effect/
Silent_Buddha
Legend
If Wiimote+ truly has 1 to 1 tracking, I'm not sure what Arc by itself will do significantly better.
Now Arc + PS3 eye will obviously have a leg up on things a dev could do...
Anyway, I'm still waiting for E3 and some product announcements before deciding whether X control can do something that Y or Z control can't do.
The only thing I know right now, is that if MS provides a way to use Natal with Win7, I'm buying one as soon as it launches.
And if UI and media playback can use it well on X360, it'll get one for that also, regardless of whether the games for it are crap.Regards,
SB
There seems to be no need for recalibration (at least throughout the E3 tech demo). But I am waiting for official confirmation.
For Arc + PSEye...
The functional difference would be in the software. e.g., If you look at the E3 demo, the younger demonstrator talked about writing using Arc. If it's a straightforward implementation, you write on the TV surface which is 3-4 feet away. Any small action in your hands would translate into large and shaking movement (like "writing with a one meter pen").
Because of accurate absolute positioning, it looks like they brought the "virtual paper" forward so that it's akin to writing on a regular piece of paper close to the Arc controller (i.e., easier to write precisely). As I understand, 1-to-1 true mapping is not the same as (accurate) absolute positioning.
I am sure Nintendo will have more surprises for Vitality Sensor + Wiimote+. They would have been a good fit for Heavy Rain. You have no idea how hard I struggled in one of the scenes because of psychological/emotional factors (I shed a tear, just one drop).
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