I think it depends on the software (mostly the application/game) whether they want to magnify the input.
The hardware is capable of 1-to-1 true mapping (or whatever they call it), but it doesn't mean the software has to use it "as is".
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I think it depends on the software (mostly the application/game) whether they want to magnify the input.
The hardware is capable of 1-to-1 true mapping (or whatever they call it), but it doesn't mean the software has to use it "as is".
The external camera is only to determine 3D position; Arc orientation is determined by internal MEMS. Motion with Arc need not be any more tiring than Warhawk's flight controls, which isn't tiring at all in my experience. Obviously some games will be far more demanding, but there's no intrinsic flaw to Arc's design that leads inevitably to tiring gaming. At the moment, Natal is only being shown with larger movements, which suggests subtler controls (a la Warhawk) aren't possible. However, combine Natal with a controller and it could well have many of the bases covered. Then again, MS don't appear to be targeting the existing sit-down gamer with Natal, a demographic they already have a lot of appeal with in the current system. All that said, until we see more of the demos and examples, we can only guess what the intial experience is going to be like. It's quite possible for any device to come only with extreme waggle games and make a name for itself as an exhausting experience!
Prophecy2k
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That certainly isn't how the thing seemed at the TGS demo last year. The guy playing RE5 seemed to be very casually rotating his wrists for the pointer movement in the very same way as one would a Wiimote. Even the chap playing LBP with the young lass didn't seem at all like he was flailing his arms around for all he was worth...
Like Shifty said... there's inherent reason why pointer controls using ARC needs to be physically taxing.
So you're saying that Arc will give similar tracking accuracy with a gyroscope that the Wiimote does with IR LEDs and an IR camera?
Both Arc and Wiimote+ (not Wiimote) have a 3D gyro and an accelerometer. Wiimote+ has an IR camera in the controller, while Arc has a LED bulb. Both claim true 1-1 mapping.
There may be a difference in how the software tracking works, but we won't be able to internalize it until we have tried the controllers ourselves.
There may be a difference in how the software tracking works, but we won't be able to internalize it until we have tried the controllers ourselves.
No, all it means is that people using stopwatches are not frame accurate.
(((interference)))
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Agree, there is a strong anti-MS pretty much everwhere, video games are no exception.
Tall poppy syndrome perhaps, I think most people expected the Xbox to go the way of the Dreamcast, not best or match the PS3 this console generation
I am curious to see what will happen next console generation, whether the Xbox brand will continue it's expansion, MS if anything has shown it is persistent and has succeeded many times despite entering the market late and at a disadvantage to existing brands eg. Windows vs Mac, Palm vs Windows Mobile etc.
Btw does anyone know if Natal can still do object recognition and insert that object into the play space? Ie like if u hold up a plastic sword will it be able to scan that in and let u play with it?
My biggest problem with Natal is that they decided to ditch the onboard processing which means most AAA titles are not going to use it due to the 15% performance penalty. It also means Natal games are probably not going to have great graphics. This could basically end up segmenting te 360's title selection into traditional games that do not use Natal and casual type games that do. It's a pity we couldn't see any crossovers, like Halo Reach was supposed to be (but obviously it wouldn't be worth the performance penalty)
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
No idea really. And not expecting much in the way of significant info until E3 (small chance of something at GDC maybe).
With regards to possible titles all we know is that 14 titles are "planned" for launch. And that Capcom is working on a "hardcore" traditional console game from their library of titles that hasn't seen a release in many years using Natal. And that it is definitely NOT a launch title.
Regards,
SB
Check this video out... clearly one sided for Sony (and fanboy made) but very funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUlv1KKs2Tw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUlv1KKs2Tw&feature=related
It's only the skeleton mapping and being 3D that differentiates anything is can do from Eye toy or PS eye. That demo is the best indicator of how that aspect is working currently.
I figure to them a modern Eye toy like game would look like Sony playing me too, even though they were first in some regards. Seeing a representation of you on screen from an angle you would normally see a game character from makes a difference and Sony didn't do that with Eye toy. Even though they could have put a see through silhouette up, that wouldn't have been as impressive as seeing the on screen characters arms out in front of it if placed there by the player.
What you mentioned above are perceptions and subtle differences. They can be influenced/altered as long as the "same" demo can be done with both technologies (and more). My guess is there was a short presentation (or even other tech demoes) together with the flailing body game. They built on top of each other (e.g., comparison with existing "lame/primitive" webcam/EyeToy efforts). It is the combined/integrated experience that impressed them. If the flailing demo was the only thing they could try for themselves, the audience would gravitate towards the title more.
Should Sony want to do a follow-up presentation, they do have to worry about the "me too" effect following Wii and Natal. However, they should have enough experiences/history and differentiators to position themselves at the same level, but in their own unique ways. This is assuming Sony does its job though.
It is not clear to me the flailing body demo is "it". I expect something else to supercede it at launch.
Should Sony want to do a follow-up presentation, they do have to worry about the "me too" effect following Wii and Natal. However, they should have enough experiences/history and differentiators to position themselves at the same level, but in their own unique ways. This is assuming Sony does its job though.
It is not clear to me the flailing body demo is "it". I expect something else to supercede it at launch.
I don't know, I'm still mystified by the way Natal won so much mind share after E3 last year. They went first, showed some very dubious demos and that stupid marketing trailer. Then those guys from Sony R&D came out the next day and put the Natal demos to shame. I mean the sloshing paint at a wall versus signing your name alone should tell you everything you need to know. Maybe I just find engineers endearing but those actual game play demos were far more impressive as a proof of concept than the seemingly pointless, and ultimately faked Milo demo.
Natal I think, even internally at Microsoft, has built up momentum based on the novelty of being "controller free", quite in the face of all the problems that actually imposes. It's a solution in search of a problem. The whole idea that the last barrier for acceptance is the controller is fallacious. And so often the things that are brought up to bolster Natal's position, voice recognition, facial recognition, augmented reality, gesture controls, head tracking, are actually possible with the PS Eye. Even so, one of the biggest complaints about Wii games is that so often waggle is used as a highly imprecise button press. Why you'd want that same problem translated to dashboard navigation, only requiring much broader movements to make it that much fatiguing is beyond me. And voice activation has been well within our grasp for a long time. End War didn't exactly set the world on fire. You know why? People feel kinda stupid alone in a room talking to their TV or computer. I doubt Natal will magically make everyone less self conscious.
And it's not like I don't recognize the advances in technology Natal represents. The time of flight camera and IR are pretty groovy. But I can only imagine two game types that it's actually good for: handball simulators and fitness games. I mean, if you think Wii was the home of shovelware garbage, I shudder to think of what the Natal landscape will look like a year after launch. It's going to be minigame after minigame with some Jenny McCarthy junk thrown in. And maybe some inexplicable, high concept Peter Moleneux game no one will actually want to play. I think they'll succeed in generating a strong initial interest, but I also think it'll be a fad that burns out very quickly.
I don't know that the Sony solution will actually do any better in sales, but I'm convinced it will at least have more games worth playing. I mean, it's going to quite literally be a Wii HD, capable of the lightsaber and archery games everyone has always wanted since the Wii was first announced, only with next gen graphics and physics and sound. The LBP co-op alone looks like more actual fun than anything MS has ever even intimated was coming...
Natal I think, even internally at Microsoft, has built up momentum based on the novelty of being "controller free", quite in the face of all the problems that actually imposes. It's a solution in search of a problem. The whole idea that the last barrier for acceptance is the controller is fallacious. And so often the things that are brought up to bolster Natal's position, voice recognition, facial recognition, augmented reality, gesture controls, head tracking, are actually possible with the PS Eye. Even so, one of the biggest complaints about Wii games is that so often waggle is used as a highly imprecise button press. Why you'd want that same problem translated to dashboard navigation, only requiring much broader movements to make it that much fatiguing is beyond me. And voice activation has been well within our grasp for a long time. End War didn't exactly set the world on fire. You know why? People feel kinda stupid alone in a room talking to their TV or computer. I doubt Natal will magically make everyone less self conscious.
And it's not like I don't recognize the advances in technology Natal represents. The time of flight camera and IR are pretty groovy. But I can only imagine two game types that it's actually good for: handball simulators and fitness games. I mean, if you think Wii was the home of shovelware garbage, I shudder to think of what the Natal landscape will look like a year after launch. It's going to be minigame after minigame with some Jenny McCarthy junk thrown in. And maybe some inexplicable, high concept Peter Moleneux game no one will actually want to play. I think they'll succeed in generating a strong initial interest, but I also think it'll be a fad that burns out very quickly.
I don't know that the Sony solution will actually do any better in sales, but I'm convinced it will at least have more games worth playing. I mean, it's going to quite literally be a Wii HD, capable of the lightsaber and archery games everyone has always wanted since the Wii was first announced, only with next gen graphics and physics and sound. The LBP co-op alone looks like more actual fun than anything MS has ever even intimated was coming...
The Sony solution is just Wii refined. We already had that, called Wii Motion Plus. Natal is something new, I'd argue.
It instantly captivates and transcends, because it's instantly obvious it's in some way a generation beyond Arc/Wii. That is why it has cornered the hype market. Even though the market is highly resistant to just about anything Microsoft introduces, just because it comes from them! I mean, if Nintendo was doing Natal, I cant imagine the hype.
If you're arguing, all motion control is imprecise, then why bother trying to integrate it into a more controller/hardcore framework at all? Why try to make something that "hey, this is almost as good as a regular controller now!". Why not just cut free from regular control altogether?
That said, I dont know how all this will work out or what solution will prevail in the market. We will see. But I cant see how you wouldn't be excited to try Natal out.
For one, fitness "games" seem to be about the only true new well-selling genre that motion established, and I would think for starters Natal will excel there.
I would rather the promise of one Milo or Minority Report interface, than a hundred boring Wiiwand clone games.
It instantly captivates and transcends, because it's instantly obvious it's in some way a generation beyond Arc/Wii. That is why it has cornered the hype market. Even though the market is highly resistant to just about anything Microsoft introduces, just because it comes from them! I mean, if Nintendo was doing Natal, I cant imagine the hype.
If you're arguing, all motion control is imprecise, then why bother trying to integrate it into a more controller/hardcore framework at all? Why try to make something that "hey, this is almost as good as a regular controller now!". Why not just cut free from regular control altogether?
That said, I dont know how all this will work out or what solution will prevail in the market. We will see. But I cant see how you wouldn't be excited to try Natal out.
For one, fitness "games" seem to be about the only true new well-selling genre that motion established, and I would think for starters Natal will excel there.
I would rather the promise of one Milo or Minority Report interface, than a hundred boring Wiiwand clone games.
Yes and no. PSEye alone has other functionalities. When combined, it enables more accurate absolute position tracking of the Arc controller. e.g., Sketch recognition is pure PSEye only. Then again, if they want to, they can also allow people to sketch/paint using the new controller in real-time. They have different use cases.
Still too much analysis though. Best case is Sony comes out and shows something that is clearly different even to a noob. The very coarse-grained body flailing demo may be renegaded to a hygiene factor. But when all is said and done, the gesture recognition needs to be reliable. Very reliable.
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