Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[archie4oz]

In 2D sensing, the player has to leave the scene to capture and swap the background. Using the depth camera, they may be able to do it without the player leaving the scene. Would be cool if they can superimpose the player onto an existing music video.

Thats not entirely accurate. That really only applies if you're trying to blend the user into the scene behind the user.

 

[patsu]

That's true ! The "depth perception" can come in handy in 3D imaging though. I think devs can implement more sophisticated way to blend virtual objects with real-life video that way.

I also suspect EyePet uses the black magic card in more than one way. Besides tracking virtual toy placement, it also allows EyePet to know the correct perspective to present the critter in the full 3D (real) world extremely quickly.

 

[patsu]

Good details about MS Sidewinder Freestyle Pro, Wiimote, Wiimote+ and SIXAXIS stolen from GAF and PSU:

MS SideWinder Freestyle Pro is using ADXL202 [Accelerometer] which is a 2 axis 2G MEMS.
Inside Wii remote is ADXL330 whihc is a 3 axis 3G MEMS [Accelerometer]
Inside Wii nunchke is LIS3L02AE whihc is a 3 axis 2G MEMS [Accelerometer]
Inside PS3 sixaxis there are HAAM-325A 3 axis 3G MEMS [Accelerometer] by HDK, and a [ENC-03R] gyro sensor by Murata.

In comparison, Wiimote+ has "both a single-axis gyro (EPSON TOYOCOM X3500W) and a dual-axis gyro (InvenSense IDG-600)." for true 3-axis tilt sensing.

 

[AzBat]

Interesting way of using cameras + face recognition for FPS games(peeking, head tilting, zooming & ironsights)...

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/01/a-peek-and-head-tilt-into-the-future-head-tracking-in-fps-gam/

Tommy McClain

 

[wco81]

How much are these cameras and other equipment to enable these new motion-control schemes going to cost?

Will they take up a certain amount of the BOM cost budget of next-gen consoles which otherwise would go to RAM, CPU/GPU?

Because regardless of the Wii's success, I'm not sure that's a tradeoff worth making.

 

[Iron Tiger]

How much are these cameras and other equipment to enable these new motion-control schemes going to cost?

Will they take up a certain amount of the BOM cost budget of next-gen consoles which otherwise would go to RAM, CPU/GPU?

Because regardless of the Wii's success, I'm not sure that's a tradeoff worth making.

I don't know what it costs to make, but I bought my PS Eye for $40 new. I got my Live Vision cam for $20 new, bundled with You're in the Movies. For some reason, to buy it without a game, it costs $40.

 

[patsu]

If you buy PS Eye with Eye of Judgment, it's only about $10 more compared to the regular $59 game price:
http://www.amazon.com/Eye-Judgment-Playstation-3/dp/B000R3BLAI
It includes other props such as the cloth map and the camera stand.

PSEye in EyePet will probably be priced similarly (My guess !).

 

[wco81]

But don't these cameras require higher-definition than cameras currently out in the market?

And Sony's scheme requires a new controller to replace or complement the DS3?

I wouldn't mind using motion controls once in awhile. But most of the time, I'm going to be seated after a long day of work instead of flailing my limbs like a madman.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Will they take up a certain amount of the BOM cost budget of next-gen consoles which otherwise would go to RAM, CPU/GPU?

They'll take up the same amount of BOM cost as adding cameras to mobile phones and handhelds and laptops...

Well, 3D cameras will cost more. But the actual camera tech isn't expensive, and it'd be better to have good interfaces over just RAM and GPUs. An extreme example of your concerns - if the current consoles came with a basic 4 direction wired joystick and that's all, the savings on controllers could have gone to add RAM. the results may be nicer graphics on screen but they'd suck as consoles!

Edit : I ought to mention I used Motion Plus yesterday for the first time. It was pretty good, more what I was expecting from day one of Wii. I wasn't very good at getting into the 'lets pretend' mentailty, preferring to wield it as a controller rather than a sword/bow/club. Fine control was very evident in bow aiming. Big motions worked in golf, although I found an unrealistic approach without any follow through reduced my errors. Paddling the kayaks was prone to serious accuracy faults though, with the paddle failing to note a switch of sides. I had to synchronise myself with the game and stroke only when it was ready to change sides. It was a fairly good rendition of real kayaking though.

It was also very clear that Sony are right in that props are needed. The iconic game of this technology, lightsabre duals, demonstrates this. Two players cannot have a proper dual if the characters on screen block when in real life the player has passed his virtual blade through the space of the opponent. For this dualing, you'd need large foam blades that physically mirror the limits that you'd expect the game to follow.

I expect MS to add prop controllers ASAP. They may even have them in the making, but wanted a controller-free unveiling to present a unique face. If they go camera only, they'll encourage different and varied experiences but will have a poorer gamer experience IMO.

 

[patsu]

But don't these cameras require higher-definition than cameras currently out in the market?

Yes and no. The video part is independent from the photo resolution. While PS Eye is SD, it can capture video at 640x480 @ 60fps or 320 x 240 @ 120fps. The high framerate is required for tracking fast movement.

On top of that, add the 4 mic array.

That's < $10 using Eye of Judgment as a reference (Not very accurate but we have very few data points).

And Sony's scheme requires a new controller to replace or complement the DS3?

Both, depending on the game. Presumably, you can grow your controller collection via your game library. e.g., They can bundle the camera and let you buy the new controllers separately. I have a feeling eventually, the new controller may come in different shape and form depending on the game (e.g., Embed in Guitar Hero, that skateboard game, etc.).

Even if Sony chooses to bundle both PS Eye and the new controller into PS3, they won't affect the PS3 specs since it is already cast in stone. For PS4, it may be a matter of expectation if the 3 vendors manage to rope in more casual gamers.

I wouldn't mind using motion controls once in awhile. But most of the time, I'm going to be seated after a long day of work instead of flailing my limbs like a madman.

It depends on what kind of overall user experience they are after. At its current form, I'm inclined to agree since it's tiring to flail.

EDIT: I believe people will discover new/better ways to use the controller once it's out on the market. I wouldn't be surprised if we see totally new applications and business models around them. Some may even be industry specific (e.g., fashion). From this perspective, flailing may be a positive trait. It's called "exercise" or "workout"

 

[patsu]

http://www.mercurynews.com/topstories/ci_12969244?nclick_check=1&forced=true

Q What do you think about the effort by Sony and Microsoft to create their own natural motion controllers? To what extent are these new controllers from your rivals a threat to the Wii?
A I believe that any sort of changes to interface that allows people to get into games and enjoy games is a great trend.

One of the challenges is not just to create a natural controller, but how do you get it into the hands of the people? How do you do that cost effectively? And I think we've accomplished that.

We have sold millions of controllers at a good price point. And we have that delivery system successfully already implemented. For other companies starting from zero and trying to figure out how to get it out there at a decent price point is a big challenge.

Q I've learned that one should not be too skeptical of Nintendo, but many folks seem dubious about the new Vitality Sensor you are developing. How do you respond to that skepticism? And can you share anything about the types of games you are developing for it?

A Ideally we would have been able to talk about this in terms of the software implementation rather than just the sensor itself. I don't have any indication for you (of what we have in the works) other than to say that we have lots of very creative ideas.

 

[patsu]

Sony begins to bring motion control to PSP too. Besides Invizimals, PSP Eye of Judgment will be playable in Gamescom: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/18/eye-of-judgment-seen-on-psp/

SCEE announced Eye of Judgment will make its way to the PSP, and will be playable at GamesCom.

So the card recognition shouldn't take much CPU power.

 

[patsu]

Developer Update for Sony's motion sensing controller:

[gt]54366[/gt]

 

[obonicus]

The titles make it look very eyetoyish.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Those ones do, as they're clearly an EyeToy/Wii-esque party-type title. There were a couple of others though. Fingers crossed there's a hardcore 'killer app' to really demo the hardware.

 

[Iron Tiger]

I'm just happy to hear GT5 will have head tracking.

 

[betan]

For most people, head tracking won't be working anything like they expect.

 

[patsu]

I think it's only a novelty and minor enhancement. Button control is still useful for abrupt change in view. Have to try it out to see if I'll like it.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I hope the headtracking is more than just looking around, i want to see the 3d effect that uses head trackin put to good use. Probably wouldnt make much sense in a racing game where you are pretty much static but i would just lik to try it out in a good looking 3d world!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The only sane implementation is to track when the head shifts (displacement/translocation, and not rotation)to look over hills, maybe around corners. These are natural responses that would benefit the game. The idea of turning your head to cause a change while still looking straight ahead would be awkward.