Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[Arwin]

Then, you don't "believe in NATAL"? Sorry if I didn't understand.

I think Shifty means by virtue of just analysing the information of one regular 2D camera. Incidentally, that does exist, currently being developed for upscaling movies to 3D, but it is far from perfect. Some 3D TVs also have processing capabilities for something like that built-in.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then, you don't "believe in NATAL"? Sorry if I didn't understand.

I said "image based," in contrast to depth-based. Or perhaps, depth-assisted image recognition. If it helps, I'll rephrase myself as, "I consider it highly implausible a single-camera solution working in the visible-spectrum domain will provide an effective, accurate skeleton tracking system in the consumer space." The field of motion capture is rooted in motion pictures, and if anyone is going to be chasing and solving the problem of turning a 2D animated image into 3D data, it'll be the FX guys working in that industry without the limitations of price, lighting conditions, or processing power.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Its possible in theory, your brain can process a 2d image and see depth using various different visual cues , its just that its never going to happen in the CE space because there are other better methods available that dont need the processing power of our brains or a camera as sensitive as our eyes. Nobody is going to put the time and money into it when there are much better and more sensible alternatives.

There are some 2D to 3D algorithms being developed for TVs but once everything is filmed in 3D to begin with they will see no further development either.

 

[eloic]

Thank you, guys, for all your replies so far.



- - - - -

My next question is on the Move controller.

We all know that the PSEye uses the "light ball" at the top of the controller to calculate depth. In some videos, we can notice the problems with augmented reality objects, linked at the tip of the controller, when the PSEye can't see the "light ball" (they appear at a wrong location/rotation).

Can't this be overcome some way?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No, otherwise Sony would have done so... They've been researching this stuff for years! Once the bulb is occluded, the controller's position has to be guessed, and this is prone to errors. From what I recall seeing, the AU projection is actually spot-on and very convincing (I hope applications use an environment capture as a projected lightmap to aid realism) and I don't remember any significant errors. There may be a few bugs in current code that you've spotted, just like Natal's "Funky Limb Syndrome" in some of its earliest showings.

 

[patsu]

I know. Thank you. I already have Adobe Acrobat and its plug-ins for IE and Firefox, but still... Weird.

Hmm... your browser setting may be borked. You may have better luck by saving the document to disk and view with Acrobat.

2D camera recognition is also used in the surveillance space. I remember some researchers were looking at how to get 2D cameras to interpret body movement and decide say... if a robbery or theft is happening in a retail store. I think they intended to do it in near real time. There was a Cell paper on it.

The Casinoes probably have the best use of camera surveillance. But they may not use skeleton tracking (Only need to focus on the hands and table).

EDIT: They also have face recognition systems in the lobby and carpark to reject unwanted guests *before* they alight from the car.

The brain wave controller has arrived. I might be able to write some impressions after Monday.

 

[patsu]

PlayStation Move Developer Diary – The Fight: Lights Out:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/04/16/playstation-move-developer-diary-the-fight-lights-out/

It's a video interview with the "boxing" game developer.

 

[Danalys]

Though the theory of image-based human skeleton tracking is sound, I consider it highly implausible a solution could be found in the consumer space. Such technology ought to first appear in movies, where real actor tracking without blue-screening and point markers for mo-cap would be a huge advance. If it's not being used there yet, I doubt it'll appear first in a games console.

It was used on Ironman.

 

[AzBat]

New Natal game demoed...

River Rush

Then Dave and I played River Rush together. It’s a game where you stand side by side in a river raft, so it’s two people playing at once. To move right, you have to step right; to move left, you have to step left. As you rush down right rapids, you have to jump up and slap floating stars in the air – the whole raft jumps up every time you do. This game was even more exhilarating than the kicking one, and even more aerobically challenging. In fact, I’d say the ONLY drawback to the Natal some people may have is that you have to get up off your ass to play it. But, for me, a person who likes exercise and gaming, it’s sort of a dream come true. An hour of playing Natal every night will definitely burn calories.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

About time they showed something new. Sounds interesting, in a Wii kind of way. Still probably not the kind of game I'm looking for. Unless it was motion-controlled River Raid. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Reveals_Gingold_PlayStation_Move_Keynotes.php

Games for Health Conference organizers have revealed the keynote lineup for its sixth annual serious games-focused event, with speakers including Spore designer Chaim Gingold and Sony senior researcher Dr. Richard Marks.

On May 26th, Marks will discuss the relationships between gaming, play, and exercise, particularly in relation to his work on Sony's upcoming motion-sensing peripheral PlayStation Move. Marks will also explore exercise's role in Sony's previously released EyeToy and PlayStation Eye peripherals.

 

[eloic]

No, otherwise Sony would have done so... They've been researching this stuff for years! Once the bulb is occluded, the controller's position has to be guessed, and this is prone to errors. From what I recall seeing, the AU projection is actually spot-on and very convincing (I hope applications use an environment capture as a projected lightmap to aid realism) and I don't remember any significant errors. There may be a few bugs in current code that you've spotted, just like Natal's "Funky Limb Syndrome" in some of its earliest showings.

I understand, thank you.

Hmm... your browser setting may be borked. You may have better luck by saving the document to disk and view with Acrobat.

I already downloaded it. When I arrive home, I will read it. Thank you.

The brain wave controller has arrived. I might be able to write some impressions after Monday.

I've seen cool stuff on this. We may see this on consoles as a peripheral. Maybe Nintendo is already working on this (they are always innovating, aren't they? ).

 

[patsu]

Well... my friend play with it first. It seems to require quite a bit of training to focus. Will post more later.

 

[Arwin]

Well... my friend play with it first. It seems to require quite a bit of training to focus. Will post more later.

I've read several impressions on this - apparently it can take a few weeks of training 30-60 minutes a day!

 

[Rolf N]

The brain wave controller has arrived. I might be able to write some impressions after Monday.

What model is that, who made it? Any links?

Not to poop on your party, but it seems like a fool's errand to me to want to interface "directly" with the brain through your skull surface. I'd rather learn how to control stuff with my tongue. Bunch of nerves going there and back out, which would surely help. The whole idea of "direct" control seems to be the elimination of the muscle/sensor layer as a transmission medium, but I fail to understand how bone and skin are more adequate for the job. I'd expect them to insulate the interface from the raw nerve interaction actually.

You're not implanting probes into your brain directly, are you?

 

[obonicus]

Do you have to shave your hair?

 

[patsu]

Do you have to shave your hair?

You're not implanting probes into your brain directly, are you?

No, come on, I am smarter than that !

Spoiler

I shall swallow teh chip.

I've read several impressions on this - apparently it can take a few weeks of training 30-60 minutes a day!

Spoiler

No sh*t ! My IQ jumped a few points just by looking at his "focus face". It's a little like a painful constipation.

 

[patsu]

More hands-on impression on Natal:
http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

Then Dave and I played River Rush together. It’s a game where you stand side by side in a river raft, so it’s two people playing at once. To move right, you have to step right; to move left, you have to step left. As you rush down right rapids, you have to jump up and slap floating stars in the air – the whole raft jumps up every time you do. This game was even more exhilarating than the kicking one, and even more aerobically challenging. In fact, I’d say the ONLY drawback to the Natal some people may have is that you have to get up off your ass to play it. But, for me, a person who likes exercise and gaming, it’s sort of a dream come true. An hour of playing Natal every night will definitely burn calories.

Natal football and boxing are coming too.

 

[patsu]

Was browsing through the Sony ideas website, and noticed this recent submission:
http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2010/04/15/pictionary/

Pictionary for the Move. Not my favorite idea but it was mentioned to me that it would be a good selling point for families (probably if its included on the harddrive or with the Move.)

I think it's a good match for a MP game.

 

[obonicus]

I think there's a WiiWare title that offers Pictionary.

 

[AzBat]

More hands-on impression on Natal:
http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/



Natal football and boxing are coming too.

Umm, look up 9 posts. LOL

Tommy McClain