Official PS3 Thread

[Paul]

You don't get it. You were trying to ARGUE the point that Cell will not be in ps3 and you used that part of the article to promote your point. And my counter was how it was stated that Cell would be used in ps3. So clearly, your wrong.

Who to belive, some article or a major sony exec.. hmmm.

 

[V3]

true , but then don't use that article to win a point and go back and say its not valid when someone else uses it to win a point.

The thing is the article on regard for Cell on PS3 is that, there are many on either side before that article. So you have to be skeptical.

There are these 3 companies, each has motive for investing in such project. The author of that article doesn't know what the motives are. No one knows.

Like I said, just by referencing the past, Sony and Toshiba developed EE, Sony was for PS2, and Toshiba was for their router as well as off the shelf components. Toshiba didn't really succeed though.

And here they are again in bed plus IBM. I wonder what each of them are up to.

 

[jvd]

Explain this jvd?

"Today I cannot mention more detail of cell processor," he said, noting that it'll be unveiled around 2003 or 2004. He did state, however, that the third generation PlayStation would be based on this technology.

Hmm? That was said at gdc 2002 by okamoto.

http://www.gamespy.com/gdc2002/okamoto/index2.shtm

Explain my quote away. U can't sony is playing the same game over and over again. As i've been saying free pr. They don't care what people are saying about ps3 as long as people are saying it.

He also said based on . Notice how sony is using such vague words in everything.

 

[Paul]

So wait it was good enough for when u needed to proof a point but when i use it to prove a point it is no longer good and its from 2002 so lets dismiss it ? This double standard isn't fair at all paul.

The article being made in 2002 was about Cell taping out. You need to read more carefully, as usuall.

 

[Deepak]

This is the most interesting thread I ve ever seen.....

 

[MfA]

Mea culpa, you are right Paul about the patent.

The patent does describe work they did with IBM :/ Only the TFLOP/s bit remains totally speculative, Kuturagi had no real info to go on and the patent is not specific to any given embodiment.

 

[jvd]

true , but then don't use that article to win a point and go back and say its not valid when someone else uses it to win a point.

The thing is the article on regard for Cell on PS3 is that, there are many on either side before that article. So you have to be skeptical.

There are these 3 companies, each has motive for investing in such project. The author of that article doesn't know what the motives are. No one knows.

Like I said, just by referencing the past, Sony and Toshiba developed EE, Sony was for PS2, and Toshiba was for their router as well as off the shelf components. Toshiba didn't really succeed though.

And here they are again in bed plus IBM. I wonder what each of them are up to.

Dude i get where u are coming from. I don't know if u get me. I keep saying that untill sony comes out and gives us full specs everything they say is just vague and is used to get the free pr moving. Not only that but because its vague they don't have to worry about living up to those claims. All I'm saying is just cause the patent says the cell chip will be able to do 1tflop doesn't mean that is the one thats going to be used in the ps3. As of right now its all rumor. Untill sony says we can now officialy say the ps3 will use a cell chip running at x.x ghz to give 1tflop we shouldn't comment on 1tflop of power in the ps3.

 

[jvd]

So wait it was good enough for when u needed to proof a point but when i use it to prove a point it is no longer good and its from 2002 so lets dismiss it ? This double standard isn't fair at all paul.

The article being made in 2002 was about Cell taping out. You need to read more carefully, as usuall.

dude considering u didn't quote or make refrence to my other posts all i could assume is what post you were referring too.

 

[Paul]

dude considering u didn't quote or make refrence to my other posts all i could assume is what post you were referring too.

It was supposed to go right under the part where you talked about taping out and how you thought it was different than it was, that post. However, this thread is moving quick and you posted something else so.. you get the idea.

 

[jvd]

You don't get it. You were trying to ARGUE the point that Cell will not be in ps3 and you used that part of the article to promote your point. And my counter was how it was stated that Cell would be used in ps3. So clearly, your wrong.

Who to belive, some article or a major sony exec.. hmmm.

What I am trying to argue is that we do not know which cell will be in the ps3 and if the cell chip will hit 1tflop and if the 1tflop version will be in the ps3. You are assuming it will be. U used articles to point out u being right and i've used articles to point out my view as being right. The thing is untill sony announces officialy the specs of the ps3 there is no way to know for sure. Untill sony comes out and says . The ps3 will have a 1tflop cell chip running at 3ghz to me the ps3 has no specs. Why because like the first hints that the ps2 could do 80 million polygons per second (or whatever the exact number was) and then we come to find out that that is peak numbers with nothing happening in it but sony never promised those specs it was just what the press was saying sony got out of it with out looking bad .

 

[jvd]

dude considering u didn't quote or make refrence to my other posts all i could assume is what post you were referring too.

It was supposed to go right under the part where you talked about taping out and how you thought it was different than it was, that post. However, this thread is moving quick and you posted something else so.. you get the idea.

Yes i gotcya thats why i didn't get mad at u just explained why i slipped up.

 

[Paul]

Your right, PS3 COULD verywell have a 50gflops cpu for all we know. However, sony wants 1000X and it's not going to happen without a 1tflop chip we all know this.

And as far as sony lying about ps2, it didn't happen. Sony clearly said the peak was 75 million not in game, mainly you had fansites spreading around otherwise.

 

[Deepak]

and you guys bash poor chap for posting all kind of stuff.....!

 

[V3]

Untill sony says we can now officialy say the ps3 will use a cell chip running at x.x ghz to give 1tflop we shouldn't comment on 1tflop of power in the ps3.

Dude , I always said 1TFLOPs/chip is their goal from that patent. You aren't making point on the 1TFLOP number but cell technology isn't for PS3 base on that article.

I am just saying, you should know that article isn't the first to make such claim. And many claim otherwise.

Regarding the FLOP rating of PS3, I agree with you all this is just speculation, even EE was first shown at 5 GFLOPs and was huge (on 0.25u), no one really thought Sony was crazy enough to put it in a $300 PS2. They actually managed to shift to 0.18 mass production rather quickly too.

 

[jvd]

Your right, PS3 COULD verywell have a 50gflops cpu for all we know. However, sony wants 1000X and it's not going to happen without a 1tflop chip we all know this.

And as far as sony lying about ps2, it didn't happen. Sony clearly said the peak was 75 million not in game, mainly you had fansites spreading around otherwise.

Your right it wont happen without a tflop cpu but sony can allways spin it around to something being 1000x faster and thus reaching thier goal. If u read what i said i'm not saying sony spread it. I'm saying sony said 75million peak then people took it and ran with it and it became 75 million polygons . I remember well what happened. Rumors started about the specs of the ps2 from leaks within sony. It happens all the time with video cards and what not. Free pr. Smart move .

 

[jvd]

Untill sony says we can now officialy say the ps3 will use a cell chip running at x.x ghz to give 1tflop we shouldn't comment on 1tflop of power in the ps3.

Dude , I always said 1TFLOPs/chip is their goal from that patent. You aren't making point on the 1TFLOP number but cell technology isn't for PS3 base on that article.

I am just saying, you should know that article isn't the first to make such claim. And many claim otherwise.

Regarding the FLOP rating of PS3, I agree with you all this is just speculation, even EE was first shown at 5 GFLOPs and was huge (on 0.25u), no one really thought Sony was crazy enough to put it in a $300 PS2. They actually managed to shift to 0.18 mass production rather quickly too.

Actually i was just trying to make a point with us not knowing anything that is going on. Thats why i put the quote about the cell chip not being in the ps3. Basicly saying that in the same article they go both ways. Sometimes i'm not to clear. I have bad writing skills. My verbal skills are very good but i have allways been a poor speller which has hurt me .

 

[jvd]

and you guys bash poor chap for posting all kind of stuff.....!

I dunno. I normaly have a point. Which is simple. Sony hasn't confirmed anything about the ps3. So for all we know they can have god in the ps3 running the graphics or they can have a dead hamster .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Mea culpa, you are right Paul about the patent.

The patent does describe work they did with IBM :/ Only the TFLOP/s bit remains totally speculative, Kuturagi had no real info to go on and the patent is not specific to any given embodiment.

EDIT: I apologize, I assumed you were being sarcastic and I got it wrong.. I am sorry Marco.


However, let's analyze Sony's past...

After PlayStation 2's design was basically complete in January 1999 at the time of the IEEE unveilment of the 250 MHz Emotion Engine ( the "10 FMACs, etc..." chip ) and what we knew about Sony's roadmap had in mind the famous three phase workstation line... later on, we also had some glimpses on the GScube project and in the future we heard and saw the GScube, the GScube with GS I-32s ( the e-DRAM in these GSs had 4x as wide busses and this device was also later shown at an ISSC Conference ) and I heard also they had been working on a certain new prototype called GScube 64 or something like that...

The Phase 1 ( with higher clocked EE and GS ), Phase 2 ( with EE2 and GS2 ) and Phase 3 ( EE3 and GS3 ) workstations that were supposed to be working and be demoed to public and to developers never saw the light of the day and the GScube project was abandoned... pretty much around the time the IBM route started to become THE route to follow for the next-generation HW, the PlayStation 3...

The patent seems quite different from ANYTHING Sony had in their R&D pipeline before the talks with IBM started to become intense and before the official announcement about the joint venture with partners IBM and Toshiba hit the news.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?N3F116344

Look at the Cell related patent filed... that is not a small number and it is quite a lot of work which does not seem to me product of Sony's R&D in their entirety... and I see plenty of things I have seen discussed in several "IBM research" papers about BlueGene and IBM Cellular Computing research...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Mfa,

United States Patent 6,526,491
Suzuoki , et al. February 25, 2003

[...]

Other References

Mamoru Maekawa, Bunsan Operating System (Distributed Operating System), Tokyo: Kyoritsu Shuppan Co., Ltd., Dec. 25, 1991, pp. 175-182, ISBN 4-320-02570-9.
IBM System/370 Kakucho Architecture (SA22-7085-0 IBM System/370 Extended Architecture Principles of Operation, IBM Japan, Apr. 1984, pp. 3-8 to 3-10.
"IBM Wins Playstation 3 Contract," BBC News, Mar. 12, 2001.

Primary Examiner: Nguyen; Hiep T.
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Lerner, David, Littenberg, Krumholz & Mentlik, LLP

patent granted in 2003... but looks there is more stuff...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G54325344

 

[MfA]

Bit of thread polution there panajev, and no ... what I said meant exactly what I said.