Official PS3 Thread

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People here lack vision - pervasive computing is the future; cell in all it's probobly sucess is only a small first step towards the new paradigm that will emerge.

nonamer said:
I've found one flaw in that piece: It says that PS3 will be out late 2004-2005.:LOL:

Keep laughing, we'll see whose right.
 
I for one cawait. lugging around heavey pieces of equipment thats 6X slower than my home rig ain't my idea of a good time.
 
People here lack vision - pervasive computing is the future; cell in all it's probobly sucess is only a small first step towards the new paradigm that will emerge.

Now now...I think healthy skepticism is a good thing. There's a joke in economics: "We just invented a new model - it predicted six of the last three recessions." The point is, not all of these new paradigms pan out, and many come later they we think. 3G did not take the world by storm, but is now warming up in Japan. Thin clients never really worked.

But I do agree that PC's as we know it will disappear soon. On the consumer end, PCs have diverged into two distinct functions - media/games, and productivity. Media and games are better served by an entirely new architecture that recognizes the massive data parallelism inherent in media/games. Using a general purpose CPU will become increasingly cost-ineffective. We already use graphics ASICs to offset this trend...but the more elegant solution is to discard the PC architecture altogether.

On the other end, productivity PCs have much more computing power then they will ever need, hence the rise of mini-ATX based PCs, which focus on cost, noise, and power consumption.

My guess is PCs will specialize in these two directions - going to Media Center PCs, to set-top boxes, eventually to some ultimate all-in-one solution. Slick interface, remote control is all you need. On the other end, we will see smaller, cheaper PCs meant for office tasks. This is already happening with VIA and Transmeta based PCs and notebooks. It will continue.
 
notAFanB said:
and where do you guys reckon this new paradigm will first show largscale implementation?

Umm...assuming this comment refers to me...

Now that I think about it, I think the PC won't truly disappear, but just slowly fade into a smaller but steady niche, like mainframes. This is just the next step in computer specialization - from mainframes to mini-computers, to workstations, to PCs, to whatever comes next.

Where will it happen - probably Asia, most likely Japan first. (People who have more extensive experience in Japan should feel free to correct me.) I think we are seeing this already happening there. PC penetration has never been that high, and many tasks, such as email and web-surfing are completely based off i-mode. In the home, many people use small, Transmeta-based "media servers." They often double as a WLAN base station. The media server can talk to the PC, often a light/thin laptop. One neat trick is the media server can take input from the PC keyboard/mouse and output to the PC screen (with suitable software, of course). This is pretty much what I'm talking about - a productivity PC, with good-enough horsepower, and a media center around the TV.

It's not a great stretch of the imagination to see games, DVD, broadband, and other media integrated into the media server. It serves as a home base, and the PC wirelessly connects to the home base to load and off-load data. The base station does all the heavy-lifting for games and media, which can be played off the TV or PC. The PC is used for light productivity tasks.
 
I think healthy skepticism is a good thing.

Perfectly stated. 8)
Sometimes the things i read from Sony people in B3D, many of which made me cringe with skepticism. Cool it dowm people and accept a different opinions.
 
Follow your corporate masters in the everything in your life is on lease world Vince ... Ill stick with my PC :) Pervasive computing is nice, owning your own stuff and having it in your own control is nice too.
 
I don't know wether this is already posted or not..

Ken Kurtaragi, Sony Computer Entertainment's president and CEO, said at a shareholder meeting, yesterday, that the new Cell chip-- designed by IBM and supposedly the core processor of the PlayStation 3 console-- will come off the assembly lines by the end of Sony's current fiscal year.

Sony's current fiscal year ends on March 31, 2004.


So would that mean PS3 in 2005 in Japan and eventually begin 2006 in Europe and US?

AND PSP with Cell chip? :eek:
 
So would that mean PS3 in 2005 in Japan and eventually begin 2006 in Europe and US?

Why 2006 for the US?

There is no problem with a march 2005 Japan release and than a fall 2005 release for the US.

The ps2 launched in Japan on March 4, 2000 and than in the US October 26, 2000.

What makes you think PS3 will be any different? Especially since they will have a better manufacturing process going and be able to get more chips out.
 
PC-Engine said:
What process will cell be using in Mar 04?

Listen, knock it off :p

In January 2004 the Oita #2 fab using 60 nm technology and 300 mm wafers is going to be completed ( approx ). By mid 2004 that fab will start mass-manufacturing 65 nm chips... Toshiba did specify volume production by that date, not early limited production...
 
Panajev2001a said:
PC-Engine said:
What process will cell be using in Mar 04?

Listen, knock it off :p

In January 2004 the Oita #2 fab using 60 nm technology and 300 mm wafers is going to be completed ( approx ). By mid 2004 that fab will start mass-manufacturing 65 nm chips... Toshiba did specify volume production by that date, not early limited production...

Is that 65nm gate length?
 
Oita #2 and Nagasaki #2 ( I cannot believe you missed the pictures posted with 65 nm on the first floors and 90 nm on the second floor... :p ) are going to be using the logic process this PR announces ( one of the several ones you can find )...

oshiba and Sony Make Major Advances in Semiconductor Process Technologies
65-nanometer process technology will create small, powerful System LSIs

Toshiba Corporation
Sony Corporation


TOKYO, December 3, 2002 -- Toshiba Corporation and Sony Corporation today announced the world's first 65-nanometer (nm) CMOS process technology for embedded DRAM system LSIs -- a major breakthrough in process technology for highly advanced, compact, single-chip system LSIs that will be only one-fourth the size of current devices while offering higher levels of performance and functionality.

The move to ubiquitous computing -- total connectivity at all times -- relies on high-performance equipment. These in turn require advanced SoC (system on chip) LSIs integrating ultra-high performance transistors and embedded high-density DRAM. In such devices, size and performance levels are directly related to process technology: finer lithography results in smaller devices that offer higher levels of performance. The new process technology announced by Toshiba and Sony and integration to a new level that allows bandwidths to be scaled up and the maximization of system performance.

Current system LSI devices on the market are produced with 130 nanometer process technologies. Toshiba, the recognized industry leader in advanced process technology, is the only company with mass production technology for 90nm process embedded DRAM system LSI, a technology it is currently deploying and that will meet ever increasing demand for more and more compact devices.

The new SoC technologies for 65nm process generation include: 1) a high-performance transistor with the world's fastest switching speed; 2) the world's smallest cell for embedded DRAM; and 3) the world's smallest cell for embedded SRAM.

The new process technology is the result of joint development of Toshiba Corporation and Sony Corporation of 90nm and 65nm CMOS process technology that was initiated in May 2001. Full details will be presented at the December 9 - 11 International Electron Devices Meeting (IEDM) in San Francisco.


Outline of new technology

1) High-performance transistor with 30nm gate length:
Transistors in this technology have high nitrogen concentration plasma nitrided oxide-gate dielectrics to suppress gate leakage current. This optimization reduces leakage current approximately 50 times more efficiently than conventional SiO2 film and allows formation of an oxide with an effective thickness of only 1nm. Furthermore, Ni silicide is applied in the gate electrodes and source/drain regions to attain low resistance and to reduce junction leakage current. Shallow extension formation optimizing ultra-low energy ion implantation, spike RTA and offset spacer process successfully suppresses the short channel effect of MOSFET and achieves superior roll-off characteristics. An excellent switching speed of 0.72psec for NMOSFET and 1.41psec for PMOSFET at 0.85V (Ioff=100nA/um), were obtained. Currently available Hi-NA193-nm lithography with alternating phase shift mask and slimming process provides 30nm gate lengths.

2) Embedded DRAM cell:
High-speed data processing requires a single-chip solution integrating a microprocessor and embedded large volume memory. Toshiba is the only semiconductor vendor able to offer commercial trench-capacitor DRAM technology for 90nm-generation DRAM-embedded System LSI. Toshiba and Sony have utilized 65nm process to technology to fabricate an embedded DRAM with a cell size of 0.11um2, the world's smallest, which will allow DRAM with a capacity of more than 256Mbit to be integrated on a single chip.

3) Embedded SRAM cell:
SRAM is sometimes used as cache memory in SoC systems. The Hi-NA193-nm lithography with alternating phase shift mask and the slimming process combined with the non-slimming trim mask process will achieve the world's smallest embedded SRAM cell in the 65nm generation an areas of only 0.6um2.

4) 180nm Multi layer wiring:
In order to reduce the chip size, it is important reduce the pitch of the first metal of the lowest layer. The new technology has a 180nm pitch, a 75% shrink from the 90nm generation. To reduce wiring propagation delay and power dissipation, a low-k dielectric material is adopted. The target effective dielectric constant of the interlayer dielectric is around 2.7.


Note: 1 nanometer = one billionth of a meter








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Copyright 2003 Sony Corporation
 
chaphack said:
I think healthy skepticism is a good thing.

Perfectly stated. 8)
Sometimes the things i read from Sony people in B3D, many of which made me cringe with skepticism. Cool it dowm people and accept a different opinions.

there are sony people here t B3D?.

regaring opinions isn''t that why we are here?
 
Panajev2001a said:
PC-Engine said:
What process will cell be using in Mar 04?

Listen, knock it off :p

In January 2004 the Oita #2 fab using 60 nm technology and 300 mm wafers is going to be completed ( approx ). By mid 2004 that fab will start mass-manufacturing 65 nm chips... Toshiba did specify volume production by that date, not early limited production...

DRAM chips or chips will logic on them? I don't see how they would produce anything other than DRAM chips on 65nm by mid-2004.

Vince said:
People here lack vision - pervasive computing is the future; cell in all it's probobly sucess is only a small first step towards the new paradigm that will emerge.

nonamer said:
I've found one flaw in that piece: It says that PS3 will be out late 2004-2005.


Keep laughing, we'll see whose right.

I can believe the 2005 date, it's the late-2004 date I find hard to believe.
 
This settles it:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=1837

Sony set to demo Cell by next March

Rob Fahey 16:08 24/06/2003
The beating heart of the PlayStation 3 will be with you shortly


Development on Sony's Cell microprocessor continues apace, with SCE boss Ken Kutaragi promising a shareholders meeting in Tokyo that demonstrations of the technology will happen within the current financial year.

In fact, rumours from within the Japanese electronics industry suggest that the first Cell chips could already be trickling off a special production line for testing purposes, with Toshiba - one of Sony's key partners in the development of the chips - currently working on the chip at its Oita production facility.

Kutaragi told shareholders at the meeting that the company would be creating a variety of experimental products during the current financial year, which ends in March 2004, to demonstrate the capabilities of Cell. This ties in with his vision for the processor, which will not only power the PlayStation 3 but will also be incorporated into a range of other devices, with mobile phones, digital cameras and televisions all listed as possible hosts for the CPU.

Sony is thought to be working on the development of an entirely new operating system to take advantage of the parallel processing and high speed networking capabilities of Cell, and this would be expected to feature on all devices powered by the processor.

Some commentators have speculated that if Cell products are being demonstrated by next March, an appearance by PlayStation 3 at E3 the following May is likely; however, going on previous track record, Sony is unlikely to use E3 2004 as a showcase for the PS3, preferring to emphasise the PlayStation 2 range and, of course, the forthcoming PlayStation Portable. An unveiling at a special event later in 2004 is a much more likely option for our first glimpse of PlayStation 3.
---------------------

Perhaps Sony is delibrately sowing some confusion about Cell development and the launch date to make sure people keep buying the PS2. (and PSP, PSX).
 
nondescript said:
Perhaps Sony is delibrately sowing some confusion about Cell development and the launch date to make sure people keep buying the PS2. (and PSP, PSX).
What is the logic behind that.
And I'm sure the Average Joe, who afterall is the biggest PS2 buying group, has not even a slightest clue what a 'Cell' is, or if it is in schedule or not.
I believe these early cell announcements are made mainly to keep shareholders happy.
 
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