But I notice you havent tried to argue that upscaled POTC: At World's End for example, looks nearly as good on upscaled DVD as Blu-ray. Is that because you need to wait to see the DVD version in good viewing conditions?
Now the war is over wishfull thinkers please explain how blu will ever replace DVD.
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But I notice you havent tried to argue that upscaled POTC: At World's End for example, looks nearly as good on upscaled DVD as Blu-ray. Is that because you need to wait to see the DVD version in good viewing conditions?
Regarding single-disk vs dual-disk: I could easily see companies advertising the number of layers or, perhaps more interestingly, but number of gigabytes used for extra content. There are various ways to market this as Geo said, and I don't think it's an inherent limitation.
I will provide you an 'empirical' data to shut this nonsense up for once and for all.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...f=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0#gallery
Marketing will try to make DVD an outdated stuff in this year and people will be sucked in it. It makes people uneasy as if they were behind the times without Blu-ray.
In Japan there's no player market while a DVD recorder with HDD is the mainstream. Beginning this winter Sony have only BD recorders in the new recorder lineup (no new DVD recorders), and reportedly selling pretty good (BD is now 20% of the new recorder market in Japan) even though they are over $1000. For these products Sony is running this TV commercial in which an old rock star Eikichi Yazawa is featured.
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/BD/event/index.html#ad
(from top to bottom, 30 sec version 1, 15 sec version, 30 sec version 2, and a making footage)
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Anyone has more info on BD Magic ?
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=816
http://www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/314440.html
This is what I want to see. Treat Blu-ray as a platform instead of a point solution. If I understand it correctly, it seems to allow video update/download via BD-Live.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=816
http://www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/314440.html
This is what I want to see. Treat Blu-ray as a platform instead of a point solution. If I understand it correctly, it seems to allow video update/download via BD-Live.
Lol thats my tv (the European version).
Another interesting point is that someone said that the benefits of Blu-ray wont be that obvious on a cheap LCD/Plasma. However, we can expect the quality of HDTV's to improve over time, so that in the near future most tv's are able to output HD content somewhere near/beyond the level of that lovely Sammy.
lol I really hope your not providing that as actual evidence or something.
On this subject, we were given a BluRay player for christmas. And I was checking out Transformers DVD upscaled to 1080p on a 46" Aquos, and I was blown away at the quality compared to our old $30 walmart DVD player. The upscaling is incredible. Sure you could tell the difference when switching to BluRay Planet Earth, but I was very surprised at how good it looked.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
The quality of your scaler makes a big difference, but all scalers are interpolating for data that isn't there. The difference with the true hi-def formats is that the extra data is there, not guessed at by the scaler. Obviously how the source material was filmed and encoded also makes a significant difference as to whether it's a small or big difference you can see (assuming you also have a proper 1080p screen to see it with).
If that were really the best case picture for HD over DVD, I think you could use it to convince a lot of people to never bother upgrading.
After the demise (well, not yet but regardless) of HD-DVD, what I'm seeing from avid HD-DVD supporters:
1. Digital download is the future (Anyone else think this newly found 'suppport' for digital downnload ridiculous?)
2. SD-DVD will be good enough for most people.
I did not 'support' either format but I have had both. I found statements like above laughable, though. It's one of those moments when judgment is impaired due to heavily invested emotional interest. I have plenty of HD-DVD titles and I don't think I've wasted my money AT ALL. Had I purchased those titles in SD-DVD, THAT would have been the waste of money. I did like Blu-Ray better, but those were more of the situational preference. PS3 happened to be the player with the least hassle (I had a couple trouble with A30) and I love Disney/Buena-Vista's flawless H.264 transfers. In my opinion, none of the studios (from both parties) come close to the quality of Disney's masterful Blu-Ray transfers.
I have no reason to go back to SD-DVD whatsoever since I was purple to begin with, but even if I was not, I wouldn't waste $20 for 480p when I can have 1080p for not much more.
1. Digital download is the future (Anyone else think this newly found 'suppport' for digital downnload ridiculous?)
2. SD-DVD will be good enough for most people.
I did not 'support' either format but I have had both. I found statements like above laughable, though. It's one of those moments when judgment is impaired due to heavily invested emotional interest. I have plenty of HD-DVD titles and I don't think I've wasted my money AT ALL. Had I purchased those titles in SD-DVD, THAT would have been the waste of money. I did like Blu-Ray better, but those were more of the situational preference. PS3 happened to be the player with the least hassle (I had a couple trouble with A30) and I love Disney/Buena-Vista's flawless H.264 transfers. In my opinion, none of the studios (from both parties) come close to the quality of Disney's masterful Blu-Ray transfers.
I have no reason to go back to SD-DVD whatsoever since I was purple to begin with, but even if I was not, I wouldn't waste $20 for 480p when I can have 1080p for not much more.
CES 2008 is still going, the Blu-ray studios announced more BD-Live related content (and some BD-J stuff):
Lionsgate
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=827
Sony Pictures
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=825
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=828
Fox
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=826
Lionsgate
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=827
Sony Pictures
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=825
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=828
Fox
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=826
Hi Def media at the current prices will simply not be adopted by the mass consumers. The problem remains that DVD is quite good, esp when matched with a good upscaler. Not all Hi Def is a great showcase either. Directors intent can go a long way to "ruining" that 3D look associated with HD.
Even amongst early adopter and enthusiasts the sales spikes happen during BOGO sales and such. Thus, if people who can actually tell the difference, have calibrated displays in ideal viewing conditions are waiting on such sales, which btw are a loss for the studio, what makes you think Joe Q is going to pay retail!? The answer is, they're not.
Sites like AVS, B3D and such are not the least bit representative of the mass market and that is something we tend to forget esp when our online social circle consists primarily of such sites.
Let's go with forced adoption for a minute. At some point, Joe Q is not to be given a choice. He walks into a store and picks up the new release of his favorite movie on BluRay without even a 2nd thought. The price is $19.99 or below since that is the price he has been conditioned to for many years now. He goes home, puts it into his BR player, which was also the only option he had when he went to go buy a new DVD player, the movie starts and he sits back and enjoys it.
Now the problem here for the studios is profit. Due to higher production, authoring and replication costs, a BR movie is more expensive for studios to produce. Now Joe Q doesn't know or care about any of this. All he cares about is the best deal for the movie. The studios are hoping that out buddy Joe will sit back and go "hey, I'll pay an extra $10 for it to be in Hi Def with all those cool extra's!" This simply is not going to happen. The studios need to hope that the aforementioned factors of cost are somehow offset.
For BR to take over DVD, they need to solve a very difficult puzzle. While it's all rosy amongst enthusiasts, the outlook is rather grim when talking about replacing DVD and remaining profitable. Yes, for some time, studios will try and hope that Joe Q will accept the higher entry price to get Hi Def but that dream will quickly fade. Don't be fooled into thinking that any studio will cold cut DVD and only release a BR version of the movie at a higher price to stimulate adoption.
BTW, LOTR 1 upscaled on the PS3 looks good enough to fool many when compared to non reference level Hi Def media.
Even amongst early adopter and enthusiasts the sales spikes happen during BOGO sales and such. Thus, if people who can actually tell the difference, have calibrated displays in ideal viewing conditions are waiting on such sales, which btw are a loss for the studio, what makes you think Joe Q is going to pay retail!? The answer is, they're not.
Sites like AVS, B3D and such are not the least bit representative of the mass market and that is something we tend to forget esp when our online social circle consists primarily of such sites.
Let's go with forced adoption for a minute. At some point, Joe Q is not to be given a choice. He walks into a store and picks up the new release of his favorite movie on BluRay without even a 2nd thought. The price is $19.99 or below since that is the price he has been conditioned to for many years now. He goes home, puts it into his BR player, which was also the only option he had when he went to go buy a new DVD player, the movie starts and he sits back and enjoys it.
Now the problem here for the studios is profit. Due to higher production, authoring and replication costs, a BR movie is more expensive for studios to produce. Now Joe Q doesn't know or care about any of this. All he cares about is the best deal for the movie. The studios are hoping that out buddy Joe will sit back and go "hey, I'll pay an extra $10 for it to be in Hi Def with all those cool extra's!" This simply is not going to happen. The studios need to hope that the aforementioned factors of cost are somehow offset.
For BR to take over DVD, they need to solve a very difficult puzzle. While it's all rosy amongst enthusiasts, the outlook is rather grim when talking about replacing DVD and remaining profitable. Yes, for some time, studios will try and hope that Joe Q will accept the higher entry price to get Hi Def but that dream will quickly fade. Don't be fooled into thinking that any studio will cold cut DVD and only release a BR version of the movie at a higher price to stimulate adoption.
BTW, LOTR 1 upscaled on the PS3 looks good enough to fool many when compared to non reference level Hi Def media.
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The transition can be slow, sure but if at it's best, BR is making the same profit as DVD on new releases, where is the business benefit? In a few years, they'll be in the same position with BR as they are with DVD now, in which you can find older titles in the bargain bin all too readily.
Long term or short term Geo, those factors won't disappear simply because time has passed or people wish really really hard! The studios wanted Hi Def to get people to buy catalog titles. The sales numbers for catalog titles are painful to look at! and this is within enthusiasts. Imagine telling Joe Q to replace his broken copy of Legally Blonde with a BR version, which to his eyes isn't much better, costs $20+, yet he can pick up the DVD version for less than $5. I can tell you which copy he'll pickup everytime without having to make a long post.
Personally, I think both sides to this argument have some merit. With only one format remaining, the chances of mass market adoption has increased, but I also think that getting the average DVD consumer hooked on any optical HD medium is going to be a tough sell.
Yes, with the right equipment the quality difference is remarkable, but I also think it's true that for most (to the average Joe's HDTV setup and viewing distance) it's just not all that, nor really important to them.
Of course, they (media companies and CEs) have the opportunity of forcing the market somewhat by phasing out DVD, but there's also a pretty broad expectation of what media viewing equipment and movies are supposed to cost. It's in the nature of a new format that it's supposed to increase profits, but (IMO) selling the added value proposition of HD to the masses is going to be a considerable marketing challenge. If they try to force the switchover too hard, they risk just accelerating the decline in sales by turning potential customers on to other avenues of entertainment.
Yes, with the right equipment the quality difference is remarkable, but I also think it's true that for most (to the average Joe's HDTV setup and viewing distance) it's just not all that, nor really important to them.
Of course, they (media companies and CEs) have the opportunity of forcing the market somewhat by phasing out DVD, but there's also a pretty broad expectation of what media viewing equipment and movies are supposed to cost. It's in the nature of a new format that it's supposed to increase profits, but (IMO) selling the added value proposition of HD to the masses is going to be a considerable marketing challenge. If they try to force the switchover too hard, they risk just accelerating the decline in sales by turning potential customers on to other avenues of entertainment.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
I agree.
I think this is the ironic thing: Media companies think they can reboot their profits by moving customers to hi-def, and they think they can easily do this because they will position their products as a "better DVD/player". Same shiny disc, same sliding drawer right? But because it's "better" it costs more.
However, this same familiarity with the shiny disc, going to the same places to buy them, will mean that people will expect the same prices. They will know not to buy the first version or else get double-dipped with the director's cut. They will know to wait for the deals, the bargain bins, the special promotions, the lower cost tier for older movies, the online etailers who cut margins to the bone and compete viciously.
And of course if there are people who can't tell the difference between hi-def and SD, a lot of that is a problem of the industry's own making. Poor transfers and fast encoding because it's cheaper, years of selling "HD Ready" sets that do a half of 1080p with rubbish scaling, etc means that people simply may not have the equipment to see the difference, and may not be willing to pay out for what they can't see.
At the end of the day, media companies are going to have to come down in price, just as the have done on every other technology and media, but then I think that's part of the plan in order to get the last of the mass market after they've grabbed the early adopters, geeky masses, and AV enthusiasts. Of course they won't have any trouble doing that as they control all the old tech/media and will be supplying all the new stuff too.
What they will get it stricter media control, and maybe they see this as a stepping stone to their preferred world of monetizing everything, from rewinding, commercial skipping, individual plays, fair use copies, etc. Maybe they think that if they can lock down piracy (unlikely) this will magically translate to more sales (also unlikely).
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The first technique they will use/try is probably to increase the perceived value of Blu-ray. If they can't move the reference price too much (The execs know consumer prices always fall anyway), they will explore additional revenue streams per household (e.g., new services/business) or selling to more households (e.g., more effective marketing).
Here's some more details about Fox fooling around with MySpace and Blu-ray media: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...iews_Alien_vs._Predator:_Requiem_Blu-ray/1346
It will take time, but the experiences will be helpful for VoD also (and vice versa). Many VoD operators are trying to explore additional income too.
Here's some more details about Fox fooling around with MySpace and Blu-ray media: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...iews_Alien_vs._Predator:_Requiem_Blu-ray/1346
It will take time, but the experiences will be helpful for VoD also (and vice versa). Many VoD operators are trying to explore additional income too.
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Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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