phoenix_chipset
Regular
It'd be great if Switch has 8gb of memory, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Also it might not need 8gb anyway, unless its OS is just as bloated as PS4/Xb1's.
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You know alot of the memory used by a gpu in modern games is for storing high res textures. If the rumors of lpddr4 are true in the Switch, and they likely are, given you need low powered memory to facilitate batterylife, you get around 25-30GB/s memory bandwidth, so it wont be able to sample those X1/PS4 quality high res textures anyways. So that reduced texture footprint might help developers fit their games originally designed to fit in the 5GB of RAM allotted by PS4/X1.
I consider the WiiU OS to be the most bloated since it uses 50% of the available ram and provides no benefits. Even if it's only 1 GB its still 50% of what's available on the Nintendo platform. I could see Nintendo continuing to do the same of using 50% for the OS (using 2GB) and leaving only 2GB for games to use on the Nintendo Switch.
99% sure. he also knew what the NX was and talked about people really being surprised when revealed, but couldn't go into deal cause of NDA.
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phoenix_chipset
Regular
Amount aside, I really hope it has more bandwidth than that, considering that'd be less than Wii U's eDRAM. Unless the switch has some eSRAM as well.
But who knows, it may not need more than that considering Nvidia's memory compression.
Plus it was ridiculously slow at launch.
But one thing I can't see Nintendo doing is having the built in streaming stuff in its OS, which uses a lot of memory. Considering their stance on fan content creation. Unless they make the most bloated OS of all time it has to be under 3gb. Personally, i'm hoping for 6gb, and 4gb for games.
I hope it runs Pascal. Wish they would tell us something before next year, Jesus.
I do have to wonder, though. Considering how flexible engines are these days, I'd have to wonder if games made on Unity or Unreal 4 would be easy to port regardless of how spec heavy they are. I wonder if something like Kingdom Hearts III can run on the thing? I'm assuming yes since allegedly Dragon Quest XI is coming to it.
Leaving us with all of these questions until next year is such a dick move.
I do have to wonder, though. Considering how flexible engines are these days, I'd have to wonder if games made on Unity or Unreal 4 would be easy to port regardless of how spec heavy they are. I wonder if something like Kingdom Hearts III can run on the thing? I'm assuming yes since allegedly Dragon Quest XI is coming to it.
Leaving us with all of these questions until next year is such a dick move.
That's the PS4 version. There's a 3DS version as well.
I doubt that it'll be the 3DS version that it'll be based on.
BrainCraters
Newcomer
Incoming impenetrable wall of text noone will read...
How likely do you guys think the NS could be a good sized fraction as powerful as an xbox one to the point it makes okayish port jobs feasibly doable? I dont even know if i necessarily believe this, but heres the best case i could make for it given several lines of evidence and some spectulation:
-theres some sort of dock mode which seems to be present wherein the NS neednt worry about battery saving and presumably heat expenditure (as much as it does while portable, at least). I would base this upon Laura Kate Dales proven record, the obvious vent holes atop the NS, plus just the fact as i understand it that many if not most modern day portables employ a simple sort of "dock mode" while plugged in to the wall. I mean, even forgetting all the aforementioned for a moment, wouldnt it almost be more surpising on its face if it WASNT at least somewhat more powerful while docked, especially given its unique nature as a hybrid? I thinking maybe fully clocked as opposed to downclocked while portable plus active cooling would be more than reasonable--maybe not, but we'll see.
-http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=203631027
Herein lies a pretty darn ironclad source hailing from GAF. He's been fully vetted by the mods over there, "Bish checked", as it were. Not as if things dont change, but fwiw...
"To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing."
-from what I understand (enlighten me Beyond3D!) basically nvidia flops =/= amd flops, to the point that an nvidia device can actually equal or even surpass an amd device that on paper it shouldnt, to some marginal but not insignificant degree. No fanboy delusions here, this is just what ive gleaned from lurking past nx threads
-the architecture on which the NS is based is capable of freepoint precision that can give a good boost to the NS under the right circumstances, as far from all engines support it. Ive heard unreal engine 4 supports fp16 to 32 a lot, is this true? Also isnt it possible that a uniquely optimized game such as a 1st party effort could take exceptional advantage of this given the proper effort and programming?
-a cpu more powerful than ps4 and xbox one. This comes from another gaf leaker named lcgeek who evidently has gotten the cpu specs from the past two ninty consoles dead on. Im too lazy to source this but i know thats what they said, check t if you want Aside from all this, would it really be saying that much considering how weak the cpus in the other consoles were at launch?
-the sheer fattened heft of the device. It aint exactly a ds.
-modern un-nintendo like developer friendly tools and architecture
-the eminent scalability of modern engines
(this next ones last cuz its different
-the fact that all potential ports can be expected to have to work fairly well on the xbox one and ps4, and therefore make them more easily ported to a weaker console. I guess i say this cuz people might point out the specs of the pro and scorpio and say that diminishes the ns even more. I just dont see devs screwing over the 40 million owners of the original ps4, same with scorpio at least for a few years. I think anyone expecting them to NOT make the weaker version first and THAN up-porting it is in for a disappointment. If you have a ps4 or one you oughta be pretty well set for the forseeable future as far as ports are concerned, unless you care a lot about vr or 4k.
How likely do you guys think the NS could be a good sized fraction as powerful as an xbox one to the point it makes okayish port jobs feasibly doable? I dont even know if i necessarily believe this, but heres the best case i could make for it given several lines of evidence and some spectulation:
-theres some sort of dock mode which seems to be present wherein the NS neednt worry about battery saving and presumably heat expenditure (as much as it does while portable, at least). I would base this upon Laura Kate Dales proven record, the obvious vent holes atop the NS, plus just the fact as i understand it that many if not most modern day portables employ a simple sort of "dock mode" while plugged in to the wall. I mean, even forgetting all the aforementioned for a moment, wouldnt it almost be more surpising on its face if it WASNT at least somewhat more powerful while docked, especially given its unique nature as a hybrid? I thinking maybe fully clocked as opposed to downclocked while portable plus active cooling would be more than reasonable--maybe not, but we'll see.
-http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=203631027
Herein lies a pretty darn ironclad source hailing from GAF. He's been fully vetted by the mods over there, "Bish checked", as it were. Not as if things dont change, but fwiw...
"To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing."
-from what I understand (enlighten me Beyond3D!) basically nvidia flops =/= amd flops, to the point that an nvidia device can actually equal or even surpass an amd device that on paper it shouldnt, to some marginal but not insignificant degree. No fanboy delusions here, this is just what ive gleaned from lurking past nx threads
-the architecture on which the NS is based is capable of freepoint precision that can give a good boost to the NS under the right circumstances, as far from all engines support it. Ive heard unreal engine 4 supports fp16 to 32 a lot, is this true? Also isnt it possible that a uniquely optimized game such as a 1st party effort could take exceptional advantage of this given the proper effort and programming?
-a cpu more powerful than ps4 and xbox one. This comes from another gaf leaker named lcgeek who evidently has gotten the cpu specs from the past two ninty consoles dead on. Im too lazy to source this but i know thats what they said, check t if you want
Aside from all this, would it really be saying that much considering how weak the cpus in the other consoles were at launch?-the sheer fattened heft of the device. It aint exactly a ds.
-modern un-nintendo like developer friendly tools and architecture
-the eminent scalability of modern engines
(this next ones last cuz its different
-the fact that all potential ports can be expected to have to work fairly well on the xbox one and ps4, and therefore make them more easily ported to a weaker console. I guess i say this cuz people might point out the specs of the pro and scorpio and say that diminishes the ns even more. I just dont see devs screwing over the 40 million owners of the original ps4, same with scorpio at least for a few years. I think anyone expecting them to NOT make the weaker version first and THAN up-porting it is in for a disappointment. If you have a ps4 or one you oughta be pretty well set for the forseeable future as far as ports are concerned, unless you care a lot about vr or 4k.
Actually, if you read up the thread, this line of discussion evolved from the question, why nVidia wasn't being able to sucessfully compete for the PS4/XB1 consoles but is now a viable choice. But I agree that is easy to lose track of such discussions
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The emotive language here suggests an investment in Nintendo that'll make fair discussion impossible...
By "trash", do you mean achieve more technically or look better? Because these games you cite are definitely very pretty, but they're also very controlled. I can't think of any similar titles on PS3 to make a reasonably fair comparison to. Those going 2.5D tend to be pushing the envelope in other ways, such as LBP's novel lighting and dynamic materials. And obviously smaller indie titles don't have the budget or art talent of Nintendo.
If you look at a genre with a lot more analogues like Zelda breath of the Wild, you see a game no better than other devs achieved.
1) Why not play on the TV you have? 2) SD res on even a 32" looks terrible. 3) I've never heard anyone compliment Wii's visuals, and I heard plenty of ordinary people complain about how things looked. they did the job. Had the hardware been much better, the platform may have had a longer lifespan and not have been relegated to the drawer so quickly.
This argument has zero relevance to the technical thread and the hardware. You're arguing subjective aesthetics and art style. Panzer Dragoon Orta recreated on PS4 would look a lot better - more power enables you to do more.
It doesn't need quantifying. It's obvious when a game screenshot couldn't come from a previous generation. SWBattlefronts and Quantum Break are what a generational advance typically means. Wii U versus Wii is clearly a generational advance. If Nintendo were to create a next-gen TV console, running Mario in 1080p high fidelity, actual AA and AF, fabulous dynamic GI, they should be looking at a 4 TF machine coming out next year, and it'd clearly look a generation ahead of Wii U and be unmistakable.
NS is probably more like a half-step upgrade, a PS4Pro. Which makes sense in the context of its portability, but goes against your assertion that slow progress of technology means 3x Wii U is adequate for a TV console. It's not slow technology progress preventing Nintendo from releasing a 4TF next-gen machine.
Benetanegia
Regular
Exactly, which is why it doesn't make any sense to bring Puma into the discussion. A57 was suggested as an alternative to the CPU in the consoles. Timelines didn't seem to line up for A57, so it was already established that it was not really an alternative at the time (although I still think it would have been relatively very easy to have it earlier if there had been interest in 64-bit ARM from the "big boys"). Next up, performance was discussed, in relation to the consoles obviously. How could you lose track?
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
Winchester.
Ba-Dum Tss
At my place it works great. PS4 connected through Gigabit to Asus RT-AC68U and it works really well.
Of course, fast paced games can't be done but slower ones (e.g. Heavy Rain remaster) are great to play streamed.
What exactly is Pascal if not "custom Maxwell", then? Architecturally, it's an evolutionary update at best. Just like the PS4 Pro may be a lot closer to Vega than Polaris (2*FP16 but no HBM), the "NX1" could be a lot closer to Pascal than Maxwell without getting the full Pascal features like e.g. that VR stuff.
I'm thinking 2nd generation Maxwell as well. Pascal just came out earlier this year, and Nvidia has been working on this custom Tegra chip for what has to be well over a year now. I'm pretty sure I read that the 2nd generation Maxwell chips continued to enhance their memory and color compression technology, giving a 33% improvement to memory bandwidth. With the chip being custom, there is nothing to stop Nvidia from increasing the bus size like they have with Parker to increase memory bandwidth, that would be pretty simple to incorporate. I think the argument of Pascal over Maxwell is sort of pointless. Simply shrinking the Tegra X1 to 16nm Finfet would bring a big reduction in energy consumption, and I don't believe the Pascal architecture really holds much of a performance advantage over Maxwell. Seeing as how I'm sure they will stick with the 256 core GPU, we are looking somewhere between 512Gflop to 768Gflop depending on clock speed. Not really changing the positioning of the product, its roughly half the performance of the Xbox One regardless.
FP32, right?
It seems plausible, at least. Pixel C is believed to be around 435 GFLOPs, and this could be on a better process. But, Pixel C needs a 34.2Wh battery (I doubt Switch will have even half of that) and a 10" display (Switch is more like 6"?) so I doubt it'd be seeing those clock rates in standalone mode, even considering the Switch's likely fan. But it could happen when docked. That is, if Nintendo really intends to make the dock clocks higher, which I'm a little more skeptical about than most seem to be.
It really comes down to whether or not this has 128 or 256 CUDA cores. I think it's very, very likely that it'll be one of those two, and at least Maxwell. I know Nintendo has a reputation for using ancient hardware, but knowing that they're going with custom Tegra from nVidia I just don't think there's a lot to gain by going very old or very cut down, unless they froze the design a lot earlier than I believe they could have.
Yeah, I mean if it was sub X1... they could have just ported X1 to 16nm, called it a day, and not missed holiday sales... That they did not do that, should give people hope IMO. Sure it is Nintendo, and sure they have a history, but that history does not include Nvidia....
Remember, their initial launch window was well before Holiday 2016. I suspect the delay is entirely related to software issues and not due to hardware issues. That should temper people's hardware expectations.
I could completely see Nintendo underestimating the amount of time it takes them to write a custom OS for the device. Once they hit and were delayed by that issue, they finally swallowed their pride and their only option to get things done was to reach out to Nvidia to do the custom OS with them.
I could completely see Nintendo underestimating the amount of time it takes them to write a custom OS for the device. Once they hit and were delayed by that issue, they finally swallowed their pride and their only option to get things done was to reach out to Nvidia to do the custom OS with them.
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