Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[AlNom]

Could be VR for ants.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The VR aspect-rumour seems pretty solid for the Nintendo NX, just like the info from Emily.

http://finance.yahoo.com/video/nintendo-positioning-itself-virtual-reality-233025367.html?

In my judgment, I think VR is a bit further out there for mainstream, mass market applications and applications that consumers can invest a lot of time in versus short snacks of entertainment.

Don't count on it.

 

[trainplane]

This is a very odd design, even if it confirms all the rumors floating around. The whole Android rumor makes sense as it's a mix up of the fact that it is using an ARM chip.

The detachable controller is what perplexes me. It looks like when it is detached, it will have fewer buttons for two players. And does it attach to each other for one player? And what's the orientation in this state? Also, will each controller half have it's own battery?

 

[RDGoodla]

I'm not sure I'd trust those numbers. The article's authors also advise to take those numbers with a grain of salt, since they were readings presented by nvidia in a very controlled environment ("oh, we're reading this thing which is totally the GPU's power rail").
.

These number implies that with reasonable power of a handheld GPU, we should't expect 1Tflops performance. What we may have is iPad Air2 performance.


There is one more interesting thing. In the figure by eurogamer, NX looks like a tablet after controllers are detached. Is it possible that NX can serve as an Android tablet? Or it can run multiple OS (Game OS, Android OS) simultaneously?

 

[CSI PC]

Unless it features extremely simplistic and low resolution VR, I don't see it being all that useful for VR gaming. GTX 1060 level performance in a less than 5 watt power envelope? Somehow I find that extremely unlikely. Even half a GTX 1060 (performance, not actual configuration) wouldn't fit in a handheld gaming device power envelope. And all current VR solutions are already ridiculously low resolution for VR. Going even lower than that would be painful.

Regards,
SB

Well this is just as accurate as assuming it is using a Tegra X1 (which is only limited to 256 Maxwell Cuda cores) where some reports think like me it is a Tegra X2 and not using a SoC that is just about to be EoL/older tech, but the sources reporting different aspects of the VR leak are hard to ignore.
They could be using power related profiles for consumption, either that or they are creating two devices (which is what I originally thought tbh with both sharing a similar core platform) but the latest news suggests otherwise and it is only the mobile-home 'console' concept.
But that would not need to delay launch until 2017, unless it still requires hardware not available in large quantities yet (would point away from Tegra X1 and towards a platform that supports the Pascal SMP tech anyway).
This is just one example of leak with others on other factors: http://segmentnext.com/2016/07/21/nintendo-nx-virtual-reality-support-may-viable/
Cheers

Edit:
One thing not made clear by the current news is details about the docking station and functionality for gaming at home with a TV.

 

[monstercameron]

Can we make guesses about the SoC's performance?
Looking at the PX2, I don't think this will be a Tegra X2, which seems to be very CPU-centric in order to work with external GPUs. The Cortex A57 has way too many power efficiency problems so I think this will have either many (>=8?) moderately clocked Cortex A53, 4 low-clocked Cortex A72 or a new generation of their own Denver cores. As for the iGPU, I'm betting on 3 SM / 384 sp + 24 TMU + 16 ROPs at ~1.2GHz using 128bit 3200MT/s LPDDR4.
0.92 TFLOPs GPU with 64GB/s.
Enough to warrant PS4 graphics at 720p.



The Tegra X1 in the shield TV is clocked beyond its optimal efficiency values because it's a set-top-box. There is a handheld in the market with a Tegra X1 and the difference to the Shield TV is only ~15% in the iGPU core clock.




Oh they certainly would've loved to, but they're at a point where they have to choose their battles. Make no mistake that the 2013 console design wins were partially responsible for AMD not having the resources for properly competing with Maxwell in 2015.
You claim they could have adapted a 15W Bristol Ridge into a ~7W handheld. While true, it's a 28nm design using Excavator cores (with terrible FP output), doesn't use LPDDR and at that TDP its iGPU performance would probably be nowhere near even the current Tegra X1, let alone a 16FF Pascal + ARM + LPDDR4.

Your are right about efficiency, the would x1 would use less power and outperform any bristol ridge apu on the lower end of the spectrum.

Assuming this device is both a home console and handheld, how would it perform when docked? And what kinda of performance profile can we expect to see. Does it clock higher and what are its ceilings?

On the amd part on the low end it would have to bl clocked much lower than the x1 but the 28nm process and its design means that when docked it could clock as high as 3.4Ghz on the cpu and maybe as high as 1ghz on the gpu. Hell it could be a full BR chip with a module and a few shader clusters disabled when its mobile.

 

[CSI PC]

I think one aspect that could influence this a fair amount is the home base-docking station when used with a TV.
This could be done in a way where you buy the hand 'console' and pay extra for the base-docking station unit that compliments the console.
Tegra X2 was designed to accomodate 'plug-in' GPU unlike Tegra X1.

We do not know anything about the NX apart from it being focused as a hybrid mobile+home 'console', and there may be design/tech surprises, which seems likely considering the 2017 delay.
Cheers

 

[Deleted member 13524]

These number implies that with reasonable power of a handheld GPU, we should't expect 1Tflops performance. What we may have is iPad Air2 performance.

Why are you assuming its 3D performance would be similar to the A8X, which is a 2 year-old 20nm SoC which is not even oriented at gaming?
The A9X in the ipad pro is over 2x faster, and it's a smallish 147mm^2 chip.

Assuming this device is both a home console and handheld, how would it perform when docked?

Depends on either there's active cooling in the console or not..

 

[RDGoodla]

Why are you assuming its 3D performance would be similar to the A8X, which is a 2 year-old 20nm SoC which is not even oriented at gaming?
The A9X in the ipad pro is over 2x faster, and it's a smallish 147mm^2 chip.

Tegra X1 is a 20 nm SOC and Maxwell-based. While A9X is 16nm Finfet SOC. I don't see any report suggest that GPU of Tegra X1 has the same level of performance per watt.

 

[Proelite]

I was thinking if the screen on the NX handheld is 1080p, you can have a version of the dock to be the same as a Samsung Gear VR with power.

If the handheld screen is lower, the dock will need to have a screen and thus be more expensive.

 

[BRiT]

As for everyone predictions based on actual release date of March 2017, please remember that the original release target for the Nintendo NX was much earlier.

Initial rumors placed it as a Holiday 2015 release. Yes 2015. It had been delayed a year til Holiday 2016 and then pushed again to Spring 2017. I think everyone needs to temper their predictions accordingly. I expect it to be 25% less performant than the current Nvidia Shield set top box.

Do not expect VR to be included. That was already debunked by Nintendo directly.

 

[Kaotik]

All this Tegra-talk smashes the rumours of "easy PS4/XB1 portability" to oblivion and back, they can't really push Tegra that far

 

[BRiT]

All this Tegra-talk smashes the rumours of "easy PS4/XB1 portability" to oblivion and back, they can't really push Tegra that far

They, Nintendo, claimed that on Nintendo WiiU. Take their claims with huge lumps of salt.

 

[Rikimaru]

They, Nintendo, claimed that on Nintendo WiiU. Take their claims with huge lumps of salt.

But now they have a mighty partner who could shove GameWorks for consoles to hamper Scorpio to NX level

 

[BRiT]

But now they have a mighty partner who could shove GameWorks for consoles to hamper Scorpio to NX level [emoji38]

But those Nintendo games will NEVER hit other systems. So no threat there.

 

[Grall]

NX home console and NX portable console being one and the same simply means Nintendo is dead to me.

Good. Then I can spend my money on more worthwhile things.

 

[CSI PC]

As for everyone predictions based on actual release date of March 2017, please remember that the original release target for the Nintendo NX was much earlier.

Initial rumors placed it as a Holiday 2015 release. Yes 2015. It had been delayed a year til Holiday 2016 and then pushed again to Spring 2017. I think everyone needs to temper their predictions accordingly. I expect it to be 25% less performant than the current Nvidia Shield set top box.

Do not expect VR to be included. That was already debunked by Nintendo directly.

When did the debunk that as they have also said they are working on VR?
This was said at the 76th AGM this year according to Tom's Hardware.

According to Nintendo's President, Tatsumi Kimishima, Nintendo is currently researching VR technologies.

"We are well aware that other companies are developing games and game-related products using VR technologies, and that consumers are interested in all of this. I cannot say anything specific at this time, but understand that we also consider VR to be a promising technology, and we are conducting research with much interest," said Kimishima.

A statement by Nintendo's Senior Managing Director, Shigeru Miyamoto, indicated that the company is also conducting research into AR. "As for VR, we are researching not just VR, but AR and many other technologies," he said.

Although this gives the impression that Nintendo's upcoming NX console will incorporate VR technology, it might actually point to another new device being developed by Nintendo.

Posting that not to say it confirms VR (because it does not), but to show they are still actually working on VR/AR, and with the lack of information to date it could be a new product or something relating to the NX base station *shrug*.
From a business model, it would work well if the NX was sold in 2 parts, with the 'docking station' augmenting the power-performance of the hand console at a price.
Makes the product economical for those wanting mobile and those who also want a more complete home console (albeit would still probably be weaker than Xbox-One).
Emily Rogers multiple sources were suggesting it was a bit behind the Xbox-one rather than a lot, just wonder if that is due to a possible 'upgrade' provided by the base-docking station, or could be fud leak.

And I agree there would be no complete VR solution at launch even if the platform itself did support it somehow, and it is not a core feature requirement for now anyway, AR on the other hand maybe.
Another interesting point according to some reports was that it is not meant to be using Android but their own OS (yeah that could be another reason for the delay).
Thanks

 

[liolio]

Hum, no... I don't know what to say. The dual controllers thing really bothers as it implies different inputs than in "full" handheld mode. That calls for completely tailored experience with disparities between single and multi players mode (or games that do not use the full scope of the system inputs when "whole").
2-1 designs or selling the system by pairs both ideas sound better to me. That design choice implies many things, like two or three batteries ( one per controller and possibly one for the central unit).
It sounds really complicated (read costly) for a system meant to reach kids. I suspect one selling point will be it can keep busy two kids for the price of a single device but I'm iffy about the reach of such an argument in a world of cheap tablets.

As for the hardware Nvidia is welcome. Tegra X1 are used in the dev kits but that says nothing about the clock speed of those parts. Tegra X1 CPU set-up sounds too high end and power hungry for a Nintendo design. X2 A73 + x4 A35 sounds like a best case scenario to me, x4 A35 would not surprise me.
I don't think N will have gone for a high resolution screen so two SM at low clock speed should do the trick.
I suspect then target is to match or exceed the WiiU experience, the screen resolution being the factor that will set the requirements for the GPU.

As a side note I think it will sell as portable Wii, the two controllers allowing to do what the Wii did.

 

[DieH@rd]

All this Tegra-talk smashes the rumours of "easy PS4/XB1 portability" to oblivion and back, they can't really push Tegra that far

They can if NX has 360p screen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hum, no... I don't know what to say. The dual controllers thing really bothers as it implies different inputs than in "full" handheld mode.

I assumed they got pieced back together, or held in each hand, for console input.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-26-nx-is-a-portable-console-with-detachable-controllers

So far so normal - but here's the twist: we've heard the screen is bookended by two controller sections on either side, which can be attached or detached as required.

The article has added an artists rendering too. Think Playstation Move Remote, one in each hand. Or half a DS3. But, as per EG's pic, ergonomics are likely foul.