Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[Proelite]

IMO those CPU cores already use almost all of your desired TDP.

If Nintendo wants to create competitive console that can run modern X86 multiplatform games, they need to face the reality and use latest AMD tech with ~ 4x TDP of WiiU.

I highly doubt they'll be using 14nm parts from AMD. Not even MS nor Sony would be doing it if they had launched a new console this year.

4x TDP for Wii U is 140. Same as launch PS4. They're not going that high. I think they'll do at most 2x TDP of WII U.

 

[DieH@rd]

With ~60-80W at 28nm, they will be below Xbone performance level. That would be good boost for Nintendo [considering how low-tech oriented they were before], but most likely not impressive to anybody else.

 

[Proelite]

With ~60-80W at 28nm, they will be below Xbone performance level. That would be good boost for Nintendo [considering how low-tech oriented they were before], but most likely not impressive to anybody else.

If you had to place bets on the prospect of Nintendo trying to impress with specs, how much would you put down?

 

[monstercameron]

Did a few hours of research on AMD apus and gpus.
My specs for NX in consideration of Nintendo's culture, what kind of tech is available for them.

28nm SOC 35W TDP.

2 x 4 core Puma 1.8ghz.
640:40:16 10 CPU GCN 1.2 part. 600mhz. ~800 gflops
64mb of Edram on 1024bit bus. 1024gb/s bandwidth.

8GB of DDR4 on 128bit bus. 50gb/s bandwidth.

Overall the system is between 5-7 times more powerful than Wii-U.

The specs allows them to emulate Wii-U titles. Handle Xbox One ports with downgraded resolution / effects.

Nintendo first party titles can run at 1080p 60fps will looking better than Wii U offerings.

I wouldnt go this far, for nintendo i can see a full carrizo soc with 8GB ddr4 being more than enough and checking all the boxes:
Modern soc
Better cpu
Amd best cpu - excavator
Better gpu
Amd gpu
Gcn1.2
H.264/5
4k
Truaudio dsp
8gb ram - sounds high enough
Trustzone security
Full hsa
Off the shelf
Low cost
Stable, mature manu process - 28nm

All this within 65w.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Globalisateur]

I wouldnt go this far, for nintendo i can see a full carrizo soc with 8GB ddr4 being more than enough and checking all the boxes:
Modern soc
Better cpu
Amd best cpu - excavator
Better gpu
Amd gpu
Gcn1.2
H.264/5
4k
Truaudio dsp
8gb ram - sounds high enough
Trustzone security
Full hsa
Off the shelf
Low cost
Stable, mature manu process - 28nm

All this within 65w.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

What do you mean by 4K? HDMI 2.0 in order to watch 4K streams via for instance Netflix? Because that's the best we can realistically hope for for NX IMO.

 

[Grall]

Off the shelf

Nintendo hasn't done an off-the-shelf console ever. This is not a priority to them.

Btw, excavator is a shitty, ineffective, power-wasting CPU core. I'm sure Ninty would rather go a custom route with a smaller die size CPU that draws way less power; they have the money required to develop it.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

2 x 4 core Puma 1.8ghz.
640:40:16 10 CPU GCN 1.2 part. 600mhz. ~800 gflops
64mb of Edram on 1024bit bus. 1024gb/s bandwidth.
8GB of DDR4 on 128bit bus. 50gb/s bandwidth.

Why would Nintendo use 8 CPU cores at a higher frequency than the competition, just to severely undercut them in GPU frequency and compute units?
And why would it need twice the large cache that is present in the Xbone just to pair it with a 33% weaker GPU?

 

[monstercameron]

Nintendo hasn't done an off-the-shelf console ever. This is not a priority to them.

Btw, excavator is a shitty, ineffective, power-wasting CPU core. I'm sure Ninty would rather go a custom route with a smaller die size CPU that draws way less power; they have the money required to develop it.

I wouldn't say that about excavator, compared to intel, you could stretch for that description but compared to arm, mips and power it is more than competitive.

What do you mean by 4K? HDMI 2.0 in order to watch 4K streams via for instance Netflix? Because that's the best we can realistically hope for for NX IMO.

I dont understand why 4k in peoples minds means crysis 3 @4k kinda loads. It could simply mean mario kart or mario bros at 4k. Also having support for netflix or other streaming services is also a plus.

 

[Globalisateur]

I wouldn't say that about excavator, compared to intel, you could stretch for that description but compared to arm, mips and power it is more than competitive.




I dont understand why 4k in peoples minds means crysis 3 @4k kinda loads. It could simply mean mario kart or mario bros at 4k. Also having support for netflix or other streaming services is also a plus.

From WiiU 720p59fps to NX 4K60fps gaming? Wow! I am on board!

 

[monstercameron]

From WiiU 720p59fps to NX 4K60fps gaming? Wow! I am on board!

could very well be that the ui is native 4k and the game gets scaled upto 4k.

 

[Proelite]

New configurations:

Took out edram because 40nm fab process.

1:
2 x 4 core Puma at 1.8+ ghz
4GB of GDDR5 96 gb/s, 128 bit bus
640:40:16 GCN 1.2 GPU at 600mhz 800gigaflops

2:
2 x 4 core Puma at 1.8+ ghz
8GB of DDR4 / LPDDR4, 128 bit bus 50/60 gb/s
32mb of Esram
640:40:16 GCN 1.2 GPU at 800mhz 1024 gigaflops

3.
2 x 4 core Puma at 1.8+ ghz
8GB of LPDDR4 256 bit bus 100/120 gb/s
640:40:16 GCN 1.2 GPU at 800mhz 1024 gigaflops.

Actually with gcn 1.2 bandwidth efficiency improved by 40%. Nintendo might do the following.

2 x 4 core puma 1.6 ghz.
8GB of LPDDR4 128bit bus. 60 gb/s.
640:40:16 GCN 1.2 GPU 600+ mhz 800 gigaflops.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Any reason why Nintendo must be stuck with 10 CUs?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Any reason why Nintendo must be stuck with 10 CUs?

Nintendo.

 

[function]

From WiiU 720p59fps...

Hahaha. The perfectly executed 59 fps. Classic Nintendo.

 

[Proelite]

Any reason why Nintendo must be stuck with 10 CUs?

It's the most popular configuration for the bandwidth and power draw that at minimal allows them to play 1080p 60fps titles. If anything I am generous.

The resulting tdp for the apus that i listed would be 40W to 70W. Which is way higher than past Nintendo consoles.

It wont surprise me at all to see them go with a 40nm Fab just so they can get some edram in. Then were talking 2-4x Wii u perf max.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

It's the most popular configuration for the bandwidth and power draw that at minimal allows them to play 1080p 60fps titles. If anything I am generous.

Are you by any chance using the power draw numbers of chips that have been in the market since January 2012, which would be 5 years-old when the NX comes out?
Is that why you're so fixated on Cape Verde?

It wont surprise me at all to see them go with a 40nm Fab just so they can get some edram in. Then were talking 2-4x Wii u perf max.

This is crazy even for Nintendo. 40nm is 7 years-old.

 

[Proelite]

Are you by any chance using the power draw numbers of chips that have been in the market since January 2012, which would be 5 years-old when the NX comes out?
Is that why you're so fixated on Cape Verde?

This is crazy even for Nintendo. 40nm is 7 years-old.

I was looking at the list of AMD gpus, and from 2012 to 2015, the GCN gpus didn't seem to improve that much in TDP between the years. I don't see how Nintendo can match even the Xbox One unless they were given 75% of the TDP of Xbox One to work with, which would be 80W, or something like 70W for the APU. Which would be over 2x what Wii-U used.

Nintendo has being using 7+ years old tech in Wii and Wii-U. So it's not unprecedented.

The minimal GPU that allows Nintendo to run their first party titles in 1080p 60fps is 512-640 : 32-40: 16 at 600-800mhz, 600-1024 gigaflops. The recommended bandwidth for the gpu is 40 - 50 gb/s with GCN 1.2.

8GBs of LPDDR4 on 128 bit bus can easily hit 60 gb/s. And LPDDR4 is great for lower powered instant on devices.

Everything fits together really well. If I was the architect in charge of making a small, cool, affordable console that needs to be powerful enough to have the jump from Wii-U, that's what I'll choose to put in the NX.

 

[orangpelupa]

Nintendo is like wine. I heard it's more delicious with age.

But seriously, even if nx have hardware power similar to ps4, it's games will still looks beautiful. Just like woo and wii u.

Then with ps4k or xbox one two.. Nintendo have even more motivation to have slow spec.

They can match ps4 spec. So they are still slower than the latest console (ps4k and Xbox one two).

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I was looking at the list of AMD gpus, and from 2012 to 2015, the GCN gpus didn't seem to improve that much in TDP between the years.

They didn't improve because they're the same chips, Cape Verde never changed since 2012. You're suggesting Nintendo wouldn't use any of the power-saving features that AMD has implemented in GCN2 and GCN3.

Nintendo has being using 7+ years old tech in Wii and Wii-U. So it's not unprecedented.

But not in manufacturing process. Making their chips in 40nm would mean using a manufacturing process that is 3 generations old (14FF -> 20nm -> 28/32nm -> 40/45nm).
AFAIK, that would be unprecedented for Nintendo.

The minimal GPU that allows Nintendo to run their first party titles in 1080p 60fps is 512-640 : 32-40: 16 at 600-800mhz.

And how is a console that focuses on first-party titles like the Wii U is ever going to succeed where the Wii U obviously didn't?

 

[Proelite]

They didn't improve because they're the same chips, Cape Verde never changed since 2012. You're suggesting Nintendo wouldn't use any of the power-saving features that AMD has implemented in GCN2 and GCN3.

I am looking at this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_Rx_M3xx_Series

If you find 28nm parts that shows an noticeable improvement in Power to Watt ratio, I'll update my NX configurations.

These are the absolute minimum specs that I think is possible for NX. There is always room to go up, but not go down.