Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[Rikimaru]

I expect there will be 14/16nm X1/PS4 Slim by the very latest Gamescom '17, and perhaps earlier than that, like E3. So.. I don't see the tech being too immature for a Nintendo console that will launch either in Fall '16 or, especially, Spring. '17.

20nm is being 'skipped' by AMD and TSMC because of cost vs benefits over 28nm, making all the more sense they have done the same in designing NX. If this were not the case you would be seeing 20nm X1/PS4 SoC's launch this Fall alongside, and just one generation behind, 14nm/16nm Apple iPhone 7.

People lose perspective and forget that Wii U was nothing more than a transitional solution, so it's no surprise that Nintendo went with the bare minimum of tech investment.

Samsung will be shipping 14nm Exynos in Q2 '15 and Apple 14/16nm IPhone 7 A9 in the Fall. Probably 100 million of these mobile SoC's will ship at 14/16nm before NX even launches.

Business wise there is too big of an efficiency gain at 14/16nm for Nintendo to ignore (right at the cusp of it being commercially viable) for a 20nm console below X1/PS4 performance, like some expect, that would be barely distinguishable graphically from Wii U in a child's eye.

28nm is very mature. 14/16 could be more expensive (lots chips with defects). Mobile chips are smaller than console's ones and have very strict TDP limit.

Also why did not Microsoft use more EDRAM instead of ESRAM? Maybe nobody offered EDRAM at 28nm then. And they did not want to use daughter die.

I will repeat Wii U did not use 28nm. And I strongly think NX won't be a powerhouse. There are a lot of reasons for that.

sebbbi, I think it would be more reasonable to think AMD for console, powervr for handheld.

 

[Prophecy2k]

28nm is very mature. 14/16 could be more expensive (lots chips with defects). Mobile chips are smaller than console's ones and have very strict TDP limit.

Also why did not Microsoft use more EDRAM instead of ESRAM? Maybe nobody offered EDRAM at 28nm then. And they did not want to use daughter die.

I will repeat Wii U did not use 28nm. And I strongly think NX won't be a powerhouse. There are a lot of reasons for that.

sebbbi, I think it would be more reasonable to think AMD for console, powervr for handheld.

It's even more reasonable to think that the console-handheld will be one and the same.

I mean, moving to anything other than an x86 CPU for a dedicated home console will eliminate even what little chance they had for getting at least some 3rd party multiplatform content that pubs might shit out onto their new box. Going with a different CPU ISA means 3rd parties are even less likely to bother with it. So what then do you have? A repeat of the WiiU, with only Nintendo struggling to justify the cost of entry by being the only publisher making games for it.

Nah, Nintendo won't bother with another home console in the traditional sense. NX will likely be a dedicated portable with docking station of some sort, for living room TV play.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Cliff Bleszinski has attacked Nintendo:

He ironizes about the smartphone market.

That's pretty ironic, coming from the guy who decided to dedicate his life to F2P crap.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I mean, moving to anything other than an x86 CPU for a dedicated home console will eliminate even what little chance they had for getting at least some 3rd party multiplatform content that pubs might shit out onto their new box. Going with a different CPU ISA means 3rd parties are even less likely to bother with it. So what then do you have? A repeat of the WiiU, with only Nintendo struggling to justify the cost of entry by being the only publisher making games for it.

What is batshit crazy is how every single Nintendo spokesman repeats the same crappy theory about the lack of 3rd party games in their home consoles. They've been saying over and over again that the only reason for the Wii U to lack on 3rd parties is because they got late with their 1st party titles. Because according to them, the only thing capable of driving console sales are their own 1st party titles.
It's both stupid, arrogant and wrong.

Did they even look at the Wii? First party titles arrived early, they were fantastic and big in numbers, home console sales numbers were through the roof. For the first 3 years, the brand's recognition and value were achieving record numbers.
And then, where was GTA IV for the Wii? Where was Assassin's Creed for the Wii? Battlefield 3, Final Fantasy XIII, Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Skyrim, Far Cry 3, Valve's Orange Box, Resident Evil 5, Mass Effect series, Dragon Age series, Devil May Cry series, Saints Row series?
The only publisher who was brave enough to try a AAA title from 7th-gen assets on the Wii was Activision with Call of Duty, and look how well that went.


Who the hell are they trying to deceive with the "it's not about the hardware" crap?
And then they use the guy who advocates using crap hardware to make their next console? Looking at the Wii U, I would be a lot closer to firing his ass than to give him any part in the next console, much less making him the friggin' head of the HW R&D department.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Yeah, Nintendo PR makes them look so clueless most of the time.

It's like a stubborn autistic kid who keeps falling out of the tree becuase he's not a good climber and only has one arm, and yet no matter how many times he's told he doesn't listen becuase he thinks that he only falls out because the tree is slippy due to morning dew.

 

[Rodéric]

...Who the hell are they trying to deceive with the "it's not about the hardware" crap?...

The Wii and MineCraft may have something to do with that perception of the market.

I wouldn't expect the B3D crowd to think different than "Hardware matters most"...

 

[Prophecy2k]

The Wii and MineCraft may have something to do with that perception of the market.

I wouldn't expect the B3D crowd to think different than "Hardware matters most"...

I don't think that was the crux of his point. More that Nintendo choose crap hardware that disqualifies them from gaining third party support, which is the thing that ultimately killed off the Wii so early, and made the WiiU to be such a non-starter.

It's probably not just about HW, i.e. their seeming toxic relationship with 3rd parties. As Nintendo historically has never really been supportive of 3rd parties publishing on their platforms. However, poor HW choices that would render multi-platform development for your box expensively non-trivial, certainly don't help their platform's chances in the quantitative commercial "risk-reward" analysis done by 3rd party publishers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The Wii and MineCraft may have something to do with that perception of the market.

Narrow perception. With better hardware, Wii would have been a better console. And if better hardware doesn't matter, why has Nintendo ever upgraded their machines? Why not just stick with SNES? You don't need to have a super monster machine, but specs count and you can do more with better hardware.

As for Minecraft, if XB1 had the power of an iPad and could only run Minecraft and none of its AAA titles and perennial classics, would it keep the same audience? Or would people wanting to play Minecraft and COD buy a different, more versatile machine?

 

[Rikimaru]

It's even more reasonable to think that the console-handheld will be one and the same.

It will be too expensive for handheld and too weak for a console.

About third-party support. They are not interested in mere ports. They want unique games from publishers

On February 7th, 2001, former Nintendo president Hiroshi Yamauchi strongly criticized the industry for creating one game and then porting it to all three consoles.

“Now software companies are going multi-platform, running one game on lots of consoles, just to sell that little bit more. Even Sega. I can understand why the industry’s flowing this way, but, speaking for Nintendo, I can hardly welcome it,” said Yamauchi. “When a user chooses a game, he always searches for something new and fun in a way he’s never seen before. If games on Nintendo machines are do-able on other companies’ consoles, then we’ll lose those users’ support. If we can’t succeed in separating ourselves, then we won’t win this battle. And that’s the reason why I’m not overjoyed about multi-platform tactics.”

On May 16, 2001, the week of GameCube’s big debut at E3, Satoru Iwata criticized third party publishers for porting AAA blockbuster titles to multiple consoles.

Satoru Iwata said, “If that (keeps happening), the console business becomes a commodity business. There is no reason to choose one console over another, except price,” he said. “Then it doesn’t matter which machine you choose–they all play the same games.”

Just like Satoru Iwata and Hiroshi Yamauchi, Shigeru Miyamoto was also not a fan of third party developers creating a game and porting it to multiple consoles.

“If you are just simply comparing the 3 hardware consoles in terms of functionality, you can make similar games and many people are now trying to introduce multiplatform games. It may be good for game users but when it comes to some kind of unique interactions with the hardware I don’t think multiplatform games are contributing a lot. Whilst I think it is good to have many different titles for the platforms, I think that only Nintendo can provide certain experiences,” said Miaymoto.

 

[milk]

It's like a stubborn autistic kid who keeps falling out of the tree becuase he's not a good climber and only has one arm, and yet no matter how many times he's told he doesn't listen becuase he thinks that he only falls out because the tree is slippy due to morning dew.

I get your point, but... what a weird analogy man...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I get your point, but... what a weird analogy man...

Yeah, that's a real head scratcher. Particularly as the purpose of an analogy is to make something more relatable.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The Wii and MineCraft may have something to do with that perception of the market.

I was talking specifically about 3rd party support - not general success of a console. You can say that hardware isn't 100% responsible for a console's success and that's true, but
Funny that you mention Minecraft, though. Check out which platforms got a Minecraft port:
- Windows x86
- Linux x86
- Android
- iOS
- Windows Phone
- X360
- XBone
- PS3
- PS4
- PS Vita
- Raspberry Pi

See something missing?

 

[milk]

Yeah, that's a real head scratcher. Particularly as the purpose of an analogy is to make something more relatable.

Yeah, It's like a guy was trying to explain something to me, but instead of re-wording it, or making a explanatory drawing, he instead decided to do a performatic dance to make his point, while using a colorful man-whale costume and performing "also Sprach Zarathustra" with his mouth, and then I say "I think I get it" and he is like "I don't think you do, watch this" and procedes to add beat-box elements to the song, while break dancing with his whale costume, which by now is actually squirting real water out of its breathing whole. You know what I mean?

PS: Just took a sip, it actually wasn't watter, but gin-tonic with lime. Tastes good.

 

[Entropy]

Well, this thread deteriorated quickly from "New hardware platform announced" to "Nintendo sux".

Seriously, is it even possible to have a discussion about possible Nintendo hardware directions here? I just can't see it.
There are a couple of cornerstones - one is the assumption that the platform that will be introduced to the public in 2016, is going to be powered by a SoC made by AMD, a contract that was revealed by Devinder Kumar, a Senior Vice President and the Chief Financial Officer at AMD early December 2014, apparently having been won after the October conference call. Another is that so far, there has only been reference to a single device.

Which is precious little, and contains speculation even there. Is it possible to have a useful discussion going on so little, or is it destined to be mudslinging from beginning to end? If so, I'd call for an auto-ban on all threads on the subject until Nintendo at some time in 2016 releases more information.

 

[Rikimaru]

Raspberry Pi version was somewhat an experimental release and is dead.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Raspberry Pi version was somewhat an experimental release and is dead.

More alive than the Wii version!

 

[Prophecy2k]

Yeah, It's like a guy was trying to explain something to me, but instead of re-wording it, or making a explanatory drawing, he instead decided to do a performatic dance to make his point, while using a colorful man-whale costume and performing "also Sprach Zarathustra" with his mouth, and then I say "I think I get it" and he is like "I don't think you do, watch this" and procedes to add beat-box elements to the song, while break dancing with his whale costume, which by now is actually squirting real water out of its breathing whole. You know what I mean?

PS: Just took a sip, it actually wasn't watter, but gin-tonic with lime. Tastes good.

Well yeah... I guess analogies aren't my strong suit.

I blame Will.I.am!

Been watching too much of the the UK version of The Voice

 

[dobwal]

It's even more reasonable to think that the console-handheld will be one and the same.

I mean, moving to anything other than an x86 CPU for a dedicated home console will eliminate even what little chance they had for getting at least some 3rd party multiplatform content that pubs might shit out onto their new box. Going with a different CPU ISA means 3rd parties are even less likely to bother with it. So what then do you have? A repeat of the WiiU, with only Nintendo struggling to justify the cost of entry by being the only publisher making games for it.

Nah, Nintendo won't bother with another home console in the traditional sense. NX will likely be a dedicated portable with docking station of some sort, for living room TV play.

Agreed.

I see no point as they have shown no ability to attract third party support nor understand the expectations of modern console gamers.

 

[Rikimaru]

More alive than the Wii version!

There never was a Wii version.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There never was a Wii version.