Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[liolio]

I glanced at the Nvidia Shield TV today on Amazon. It sells for $199 includes 20nm Tegra X1 (512 gigaflop Maxwell GPU), CPU is the typical 4 a57 and 4 a53 split, comes with 3GB of LPDDR4, and the controller is included. I'm assuming this thing sells for a profit as I doubt Nvidia gets anything from software sales.

I guess Nintendo would have to try hard to come in at a higher price and with worse performance.

It consumes ~20 Watts at full tilt, imho I'm not sure that Nvidia product is that easy to beat, Nvidia provides great performances per Watts and per mm2.
In a post I discarded I went on comparing the GPU performance in AMD low power APU as well as the R7 240 and R7 250 with mobile products and well the deficit at which AMD (versus its competitors) in power constrained environment is under estimated around here.

EDIT
Nvidia may not be losing money but it would surprise if they are making some, it is a low volume (most likely) advertizing platform.

 

[Rangers]

I glanced at the Nvidia Shield TV today on Amazon. It sells for $199 includes 20nm Tegra X1 (512 gigaflop Maxwell GPU), CPU is the typical 4 a57 and 4 a53 split, comes with 3GB of LPDDR4, and the controller is included. I'm assuming this thing sells for a profit as I doubt Nvidia gets anything from software sales.

I guess Nintendo would have to try hard to come in at a higher price and with worse performance.

The only problem $199 is the model with 16GB flash (and no optical drive). Not really enough for any kind of console. The model with 500 GB hard drive retails for $299, discouragingly close to Xbox One price. This suggest to me something similar with 500 GB HDD and optical drive would come in around 299, again not undercutting PS4/X1 by a substantial enough amount to justify the reduced power.

 

[Rangers]

How many TF do you get for a $200 PC?

I did buy one of these for $180 recently http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.311268400

No teraflops but OTOH comes with full display (crappy tho, only reason I dont love it), keyboard, and battery

I've always felt a video card was pretty close to basically a console as well (has outputs, ICB, onboard RAM etc). And you can get lots of flops in a GPU for $200. Then again it isn't because a controller+plastic stuffs+drives probably adds $50-$100.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

you can get lots of flops in a GPU for $200.

LOTS OF FLOPS!

 

[Goodtwin]

I glanced at the Nvidia Shield TV today on Amazon. It sells for $199 includes 20nm Tegra X1 (512 gigaflop Maxwell GPU), CPU is the typical 4 a57 and 4 a53 split, comes with 3GB of LPDDR4, and the controller is included. I'm assuming this thing sells for a profit as I doubt Nvidia gets anything from software sales.

I guess Nintendo would have to try hard to come in at a higher price and with worse performance.

It seems to me that if Nintendo is strictly creating a console similar to the Shield, then yes, Nintendo should be able to create something more powerful for a late 2016 launch at the same price. Even if Nvidia is better performance per watt, it doesn't make much of a difference as long as Nintendo accepts a console that operates on 50-70 watts.

Can ARM processors more easily emulate PowerPC thanks to being Risc processors? Or doesn't that make a difference?

 

[function]

No. See the whole thread discussing XB1 emulator rather than debating Function's throw-away remark here.

Okay, so Nintendo aren't going to hire MS, but MS's successes do highlight that Nintendo could use emulation for BC if they wanted to (and were prepared to hire and spend on it).

I know that the cost / benefit thing about BC comes up often and I don't want to retread that conversation here, other than to say that Nintendo can have it while avoiding either adding a WiiU to their next system, or basing the next system around it. (Neither of which are very attractive propositions).

As long as Nintendo go for a reasonably fast device and include an optical drive (and second wireless connection?) they can approach their next gen box completely unencumbered and go for a completely fresh start. Which is a good thing, and perhaps overdue?

 

[Rikimaru]

There is no need for Wii U BC. New hardware won't feature gamepad with screen - BC without addon not possible.
BC with any addon (even N handheld) is VERY niche.

 

[function]

WiiU is BC with WaggleWii despite having no wagglemotes. WaggleWii was BC with GameCueb despite not coming with GC controller or mem cards.

No reason not to have WiiU, Wii, and GC games available on the e-shop via emulation. Continue to sell motes and WiiU pad as accessories, just like the motes and the classic controller currently are.

Existing users could just use their existing kit.

I could really do with a Wii for Wii Sports. One of the best games of last gen.

 

[Rikimaru]

wagglemotes are needed for multiplayer games. Gamepad with screen will be needed only for BC (which is $140 to replace).

Also they ditched GC BC for Wii in 2011, before Wii Mini (just by removing 4 ports).

Wii U emulation will be pretty hard (epecially on new weak system) and I'm sure Nintendo can not pull this off. MS emu is a miracle.

Unless NX is overclocked Wii U.

 

[AlNom]

Maybe the new handheld can be used as the touchpad replacement?

The waggle makes me wonder how many of those they have backlogged.

 

[DieH@rd]

Even if the unit numbers and exact production/launch months are off, we can now start limiting our discussion at the hardware that can be produced in 2016.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150702PD204.html

 

[McHuj]

I agree. I wouldn't put much stock into specific numbers in that story, just the fact that Nintendo is already looking at mass production next year.

I expect we'll start getting leaks more frequently fro here on out.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You mean produced in October, right? The article says the they want to start pilot production then. I suppose a dummy chip can be used until nearer launch, but given time to manufacture, we're really looking at what'll be available en masse at the end of this year.

Also, 20 million in the first year == cheap!

 

[DieH@rd]

IMO, 16nm finfet will not be used, HBM1/2 will not be used.

I predict NX will be a new amiibo-friendly cheap handheld console that can easily beam its gameplay to HDTV. Hopefully they will at least use the latest ARM tech and few gigs of ram. Knowing Nintendo, new display will be massive improvement over 3DS.... for which I mean it will be 480p.

edit - I just thought of something. During teotreticNXhanheld>HDTV beaming mode, what power savings can Nintendo get if they simply turn off the hanheld screen? And can they use that power savings to boost resolution rendering to 720p [720p is much more HDTV-friendly]?

 

[DieH@rd]

With console manufaturing every cent matters.

We are also talking about a company that refused to include charging cables in their portable consoles ~"because we are serving our old fans".

 

[Goodtwin]

You mean produced in October, right? The article says the they want to start pilot production then. I suppose a dummy chip can be used until nearer launch, but given time to manufacture, we're really looking at what'll be available en masse at the end of this year.

Also, 20 million in the first year == cheap!

Which begs the question, just what are they producing that can be really cheap, and have mass market appeal?

Is this not even a successor to Wii U, but some sort of virtual console hub that gives the player access to all of Nintendo's old games?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Isn't Wii the only consoles to sell 20 million in its first year? I don't think a console or handheld would have any chance of those sorts of numbers. If that figure is serious, my guess would be that it's derived from looking at the massive sales of mobile devices, and the NX is thus a game-enabled smartphone. Maybe dual-boot or some other separation of a Nintendo game mode for traditional use, and an Android device with Android store. Owners will be able to text, phone call at a pinch (not ideal use), play Mario Iteration 43 and Pokemon Apple and Mango as full featured games (on card? Optional downloads), and play Nintendo's Android titles too. Yes, it'd compete with non-Nintendo software, but it's better for people to have a Nintendo phone that may sell Nintendo games than a non-Nintendo phone that won't.

I'd consider that a bullet smartly bit and an intelligent move.

 

[Entropy]

Even if the unit numbers and exact production/launch months are off, we can now start limiting our discussion at the hardware that can be produced in 2016.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150702PD204.html

If this is true, 28HPC+ seems likely for a stationary console with 16nm FFC as a candidate. If a handheld device => ?. I always found the rumour that Nintendo had been talking to Imagination Tech interesting in conjunction with the explicit mentioning of game consoles at the top of the GT7900 chart (16 clusters) here.
Still find 2016 hard to credit, but digitimes is a decent source. But their statement of 20 million seems insane. I agree with Shifty, if this rumour is accurate down to that detail, cheap is absolutely necessary. Hell even then I just can't see those kinds of volumes for any consumer electronics device outside an iPhone, iPad or top end Samsung phone. Makes me question the rumour in its entirety.

 

[DieH@rd]

20M could be just manufacturing contract, with finished products being sold over unknown period of a time [more than a year].

 

[RDGoodla]

If NX consists of 2 consoles (a home console and a handheld), then it's possible that these two consoles combined sell 20M in the first year (for example, home console 6~7M and handheld 13~14M).