Move detection can be done on a small slice of CPU time. Face tracking should be custom HW in the PSeye - it features in tiny, cheap digital cameras and is way more efficient than throwing GPU cores at the job.
NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
- Thread starter Barso
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PS4 = Xbox?
Durango = GC?
Any reason why MS went the route of customizing GCN with ESRAM/DME....but only chose 12 CU? ....the rumors about Durango will use x770 class GPU were true after all...pretty odd choice for the team that pushed out 2 generations of powerful consoles to target a budget range GPU...do you think Durango may end up with 2 GPU??
Durango = GC?
Any reason why MS went the route of customizing GCN with ESRAM/DME....but only chose 12 CU? ....the rumors about Durango will use x770 class GPU were true after all...pretty odd choice for the team that pushed out 2 generations of powerful consoles to target a budget range GPU...do you think Durango may end up with 2 GPU??
Averagejoe
Regular
Wait so sony has 400gflops for the eye toy,but ms durando console which has been heavily asociated with kinect build in will no use any FLOPS or have any impact on rerources.?
This is what i refer as wishful thinking lets paint the best scenario for durando and the worst for orbis.
arijoytunir
Regular
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis
So there is no secret sauce .
Dme , esram is only used to make the 8gb ram run .
So there is no secret sauce .
Dme , esram is only used to make the 8gb ram run .
Hecatoncheires
Newcomer
So it's 14 CUs for rendering and 4 CUs for compute for Orbis and 12 CUs for both rendering and compute for Durango.
arijoytunir
Regular
Edit
No (to the thread in general). It's 8 core CPU + 12 CU + DME (de)compression + DSP + video codec + whatever else (processors on Kinect?) for AI, physics, graphics (including triangle setup, culling, tweening, displacing, shading, drawing, and post-effects), audio, video streams, OS, and IO processing on Durango, and it's 8 core CPU + 4 CUs + 14 CU + DSP + video codec + whatever else for AI, physics, graphics (including triangle setup, culling, tweening, displacing, shading, drawing, and post-effects), audio, video streams, OS, IO processing on Orbis. The distinctions people are drawing between hardware and uses is completely inaccurate. The idea, for example, that Orbis has 4 CUs that cannot at all do any graphics work is completely ludicrous (unless they are reserved for something and devs have no access to them). You can make a GPU or CPU do whatever work you want it to. You just have to formulate your data and code to make it work. There are issues of efficiency where some workloads aren't worth using some hardware for, but there's nothing technically stopping a developer using the DSP to do graphics processing or the CPU to do audio. The 4 CUs can be fed image data and process it and provide graphical functions. Likewise, the audio is a noteable cost that shouldn't be ignored. If Durango has a monster DSP and Orbis has a titchy one, Durango will have an advantage that'll either mean better audio performance or more resources used from Orbis's CPU or CUs to match that performance. And if someone finds a way to execute triangle culling on a DSP, or skeletal tweening, we might even see Durango's graphics gain a boost.
It's depressing how little many of the contributors in this thread really understand the notion of hardware and software, no matter how often it's repeated. An attempt to distil everything down into a metric for a simple comparison is the height of human stupidity; a catastrophic failing of human intelligence where the precepts of intelligent discussion are broken and you're left with the faintest shadow of real discussion, scientifically finding accurate but meaningless numbers and drawing logical, pointless comparisons, and coming to empty conclusions. Over 1800 posts achieving absolutely nothing of intellectual value.
Hecatoncheires
Newcomer
And so it continues...
The rumors (EDGE + VGleaks + Digital Foundry) say that Durango will have more API overhead, it will have more OS overhead, it will have less raw computing power, it will have two pools instead of an unified pool, devs say is is slower in real life situations, and yet you cling to some monster-*instert random buzzword* that might turn the tide for Durango. How very intelligent of you. Sorry that I'm way too stupid to come up with that myself. Hope dies last, right?
do they have last specs or are they using VGleaks? why they say 12CUs vs 18CUs? haven't that be discuss to be 14CUs +4CUs reserved?
Betanumerical
Veteran
Because theres nothing to say that the 4 CU's that are separate from the other 14 CU's are reserved by anything and not available to the developer to use, so they are using the reasonable assumption that all 18 CU's are available for the developer to use and just going off that.
I'm not clinging to anything. Ihave no emotional investment in any of these boxes; only an emotional investment in intelligent behaviour and how catastrophically absent it is in this thread!
In contrast to those already taking sides on which is better, I'm able to entertain the notion that we haven't enough information to make any rational comparisons. And I'm (futilely) pointing out that people isolating components without understand the full system-level picture are completely failing to understand console architecture. As mentioned elsewhere, what if Durango is TBDR and focussed on tile-based virtual texturing? Suddenly those BW comparisons don't mean much. And what if Kinect has its own processor while those 4 CUs in Orbis are doing imaging work for Sony? Then that 4 CU advantage doesn't contribute anything more than MS is doing with a different arrangement of silicon. Without that info we can't make a valid comparison as to final performance.
But by all means go ahead and jump to conclusions. Much like people did looking at RSX+Cell uber flops numbers versus XB360, where XB360 merrily kicked PS3 in the nether-regions in many titles because the whole system was a better design taken as how it enabled developers to crunch numbers and produce on-screen results. Orbis has 50% bigger numbers, ergo it's 50% better.
Irrefutable, naive, flawed logic by those on both sides of the fence.Bagel seed
Veteran
Best to keep speculating within the specs we have on hand instead of adding more what ifs I think. This is the "versus" thread right? Then it needs to have some sort of ground rules for "fair" comparison 
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
The following is completely OT: I just had to take the time to let you know this part had me laughing as if I was reading something Mel Brooks wrote.
Thanks for that! Now, back to the regularly scheduled program.Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
Would that stop Orbis from doing the same via GCN or/and in software?
That would have to be one hell of a CPU to even come close to 4 CUs.
Are you pooling from the least likely of options (based on known size these leaked pieces take up), just to turn this into a toss up? That's what it sounds like to me. Am I wrong?
this is a funny part of the Digital Foundry article
''And finally there's the wild card - SuperDAE, arch-leaker extraordinaire, undeniably in possession of early dev kits and the crucial documentation that goes with them. From talking with him directly in order to verify his leaks, we know his information - typically posted on vgleaks.com - is entirely accurate, the only question being how old it is, and whether the hardware has improved since he received his data. He also has - somehow - hands-on access to non-final next-gen dev kits and his pictures of an older Durango dev kit having been verified by trusted sources.''
SuperDaE said VGleaks specs are old and things changed, DF says probably nothing changed and final specs still the same,i don't know what to believe anymore.
''And finally there's the wild card - SuperDAE, arch-leaker extraordinaire, undeniably in possession of early dev kits and the crucial documentation that goes with them. From talking with him directly in order to verify his leaks, we know his information - typically posted on vgleaks.com - is entirely accurate, the only question being how old it is, and whether the hardware has improved since he received his data. He also has - somehow - hands-on access to non-final next-gen dev kits and his pictures of an older Durango dev kit having been verified by trusted sources.''
SuperDaE said VGleaks specs are old and things changed, DF says probably nothing changed and final specs still the same,i don't know what to believe anymore.
SuperDaE supplied VgLeaks with specs for Durango I think. They already said DaE will provide them with informations when they posted "exclusive" picture of Durango devkit.
And I agree with Shifty, we don't know the details. 3D cameras/voice and face recognition and other stuff that these consoles are packing won't run on 1/3rd of the Jaguar core, and seeing MS is putting alot of dedicated hardware in their console, they might do it for Kinect too. Anyways, simple clock changes could bring two consoles much closer together, so any premature talk about definite performance are wrong.
I'm still puzzled by Sweetvar26's post when he said "team at AMD and my friend think that Durango is better one when it comes to graphics and that its like a supercomputer". I guess he might worded it wrong or he was talking about PS4 but incidentally exchanged them, but there must be something else in these systems that we still don't know about.
And I agree with Shifty, we don't know the details. 3D cameras/voice and face recognition and other stuff that these consoles are packing won't run on 1/3rd of the Jaguar core, and seeing MS is putting alot of dedicated hardware in their console, they might do it for Kinect too. Anyways, simple clock changes could bring two consoles much closer together, so any premature talk about definite performance are wrong.
I'm still puzzled by Sweetvar26's post when he said "team at AMD and my friend think that Durango is better one when it comes to graphics and that its like a supercomputer". I guess he might worded it wrong or he was talking about PS4 but incidentally exchanged them, but there must be something else in these systems that we still don't know about.
Perhaps but IMHO, still too early to say, until we know their plan and price.
What if Durango units are cheaper and can be stacked ? If you are willing to spend more, buy multiple units ! 8^P Given the higher level API, MS might be able to abstract the configuration better.
Truth to be told, you can probably stack Orbis output too if the developers put in extra effort, like GT5's multi-PS3 rendering. But stacking would pit these consoles against PCs. ;-)
In more practical terms, from MS's perspective, they may want you to buy a PC if you want high power visuals. Their software library may be available on PCs in parallel this time. If they do so, it should appeal to PC gamers and folks who want high fidelity.
Do you think the always-on DRM will help ?
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