NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[Squilliam]

If Sony is going to include a PsEye in every box would that change the nature of the famous 4 significantly? If they're both processing camera input and Microsoft is using fixed function hardware whilst Sony is relying on these 4 CUs then perhaps their relative performance will be close. We have rumours that the performance of the two systems are close yet we have rumours of extra GPU performance from Orbis so perhaps this can reconcile these two ideas?

 

[Prophecy2k]

If Sony is going to include a PsEye in every box would that change the nature of the famous 4 significantly? If they're both processing camera input and Microsoft is using fixed function hardware whilst Sony is relying on these 4 CUs then perhaps their relative performance will be close. We have rumours that the performance of the two systems are close yet we have rumours of extra GPU performance from Orbis so perhaps this can reconcile these two ideas?

I heavily doubt that they will.

Unlike MS, whose comments about Kinect and its importance to the Xbox platform have indicated such a move being a possibility for them, Sony haven't expressed any such aspirations, publically or otherwise.

Sony have barely acknowledged the PS Move in the past year. I expect the HD Stereo PS Eye 2.0 to be a typical Sony token effort to provide Playstation gamers at least some of the functionality that MS will have on their platform with Kinect. Although Sony won't force every PS4 owner to have one.

Also, again those "extra" 4 CUs aren't "reserved". They are available to devs for them to use for what they will. The leaks didn't say anything about HW being "reserved". And if the 4CUs were "reserved" for 3D camera processing, don't you think that Sony would have to make that clear enough to developers that it wouldn't be leaked as something ambiguous and unclear, rather something very clear like, "Liverpool has 18CUs, 14 are available for graphics and compute, and 4 are reserved for the OS and peripherals".

 

[bagofsuck]

edit

*didn't belong here*

sorry.

 

[arijoytunir]

amd kabini has 4 jaguar cores with 2 CU of gcn cores . what if orbis has 2 kabini and 14 gcn gpu ?

 

[dumbo11]

If Sony is going to include a PsEye in every box would that change the nature of the famous 4 significantly? If they're both processing camera input and Microsoft is using fixed function hardware whilst Sony is relying on these 4 CUs then perhaps their relative performance will be close.

I think there's a couple of relevant points:
1) It depends how "always on" these are:
- based on the leak's description of the +4, it seems the Pseye/stereo will most likely be enabled 'on demand'. If your game doesn't use it (or Move), then Orbis probably doesn't run this stuff.
- there's a general intent for Durango to be always-on with it's NUI interface, but does that mean full body tracking during gaming, or just an audio interface or a lower resolution 3d mode?
(naturally if all games do use 3d, then this question is irrelevant!)

2) It depends what MS does in fixed function hardware exactly. Dedicated resources were in the original design brief, but I'm not sure if it's still mentioned in the later leaks.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's more like talking about giraffes and horses under the umbrella of animals. Or 'stripy horse' to mean 'zebra'.

There's no reasoning with you giraffe fanboys.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

One way that I generally think of it is...

If it is based on a readily available consumer PC part then it's off the shelf. Modifications just slightly change the capabilities or add on capabilities but don't massively change it into something unrecognizeable from the item it is based on.

If it was based on something either not readily available to a PC or uses something custom created then I view that as more custom.

I'm regretting raising this. I agree, in principle but, based on the rumours we have, there looks to be a gulf of difference between the modifications AMD/Sony have made to a possible 7xxx core for the PS4 and the modifications AMD/Microsoft have made to a possible 7xxx core for Xbox3. Architecting in ESRAM isn't a minor modification, that's a fundamental change to the GPU's memory architecture.

In my view, both sound like modified COTS, it's just the degree of modification that differs. I guess we'll have a better idea on the PS4 in nine days and a couple more months for the the Xbox, although I think people will be disappointed in the [lack of] technical details that both companies will go into in their reveal presentations.

However I do hope both release footage of real games/engines (*cough* Sony, KZ2 *cough*), then DF can begin analysis. Although they'll be hampered by not having raw capture, it'll give a better sense of capabilities. 720p/1080p streams will be telling enough.

 

[XpiderMX]

Some info (no specs) from Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/5982986/we-know-all-about-the-next-xbox-from-someone-who-says-theyve-got-one

 

[dumbo11]

The Durango is said to also allow games to be put into "suspend" and "constrained" states, which seemingly allow users to pause a game, switch to a second game, then return to the first game without losing their place, provided game developers follow some Microsoft protocols. Again, this is no revolution for users of computers, phones, or even Nintendo and Sony handheld gaming machines, but it is one giant leap for consoles.

That would mesh with the rumours of developers being forced to use a "higher" level api on Durango.

 

[Gubbi]

That would mesh with the rumours of developers being forced to use a "higher" level api on Durango.

It just means the game has to support a suspend and resume signal from the OS to save state and restore it.

Cheers

 

[XpiderMX]

That would mesh with the rumours of developers being forced to use a "higher" level api on Durango.

It is more like when we press the xbox button on controller, the game must pause.

Is Kotaku/SuperDaE trolling? a jump like Halo 2 (original Xbox) to Crysis (on high/PC) is too high.

 

[Averagejoe]

Some info (no specs) from Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/5982986/we-know-all-about-the-next-xbox-from-someone-who-says-theyve-got-one

So there was no specs change at all,and just confirmation of things that are no good.

Mandatory installs.
Mandatory Kinect.

Same specs.

 

[XpiderMX]

So there was no specs change at all,and just confirmation of things that are no good.

Mandatory installs.
Mandatory Kinect.

Same specs.

Mandatory install, but transparent to the user, I can't understand where is the bad thing about it, I always install every Xbox 360 game.

Mandatory Kinect is not an issue if devs are not "obligated" to support body tracking (I like voice commands).

Not "same specs", instead "no new news about specs".

Why all news about Durango must be seen thru a "all is bad" filter?

 

[McHuj]

I really think that both consoles will have to do mandatory installs. If we're dealing with 3.5+ GB of RAM at the minimum, I don't think an optical drive can really provide good performance for that. Load times would be horrific in my opinion.

 

[Averagejoe]

Mandatory install, but transparent to the user, I can't understand where is the bad thing about it, I always install every Xbox 360 game.

Mandatory Kinect is not an issue if devs are not "obligated" to support body tracking (I like voice commands).

Not "same specs", instead "no new news about specs".

Why all news about Durango must be seen thru a "all is bad" filter?

You really don't see it.?

Durango is moving to 50GB disc,imaging installing big games on your HDD,how fast it will fill,and guessing that Windows 8 or variable will be pre installed it will not be 500GB per say,hell it never is even without windows.

There is a reason why is build in and you even need the camera to be connected at all times,i think normal controller will be secondary like the normal controller on Wii U.

For voice command you don't need a camera all you need is a good mic.

They even have the same diagram,and SuperDae claimed new specs info on Durango from the Kotaku article.

 

[XpiderMX]

You really don't see it.?

Durango is moving to 50GB disc,imaging installing big games on your HDD,how fast it will fill,and guessing that Windows 8 or variable will be pre installed it will not be 500GB per say,hell it never is even without windows.

And did you read the article? it say clearly, "you can play while game is installing". If everything works like it say, you will not need to wait for a 50GB installation.

There is a reason why is build in and you even need the camera to be connected at all times,i think normal controller will be secondary like the normal controller on Wii U.

Come on, how can the controller be a "secundary" thing if MS is putting a controller in each box? for me it is obvious that they now know that Kinect needs a phisical controller, the "you are the controller" slogan is a no-no for some kinds of games

For voice command you don't need a camera all you need is a good mic.

Yes, you don't need a cam, but the cam have mics (as Kinect 1), then you don't need a "good mic" for voice commands if you have Kinect.

They even have the same diagram,and SuperDae claimed new specs info on Durango from the Kotaku article.

There are not new news about specs.

 

[dagamer]

Having the Kinect available does not mean every game has to use it, but developers can expect it to be there. And I dislike how many assume Kinect support just means you're going to be waggling your entire body around as I think voice control is a huge asset to many games if implemented correctly.

I'm glad more and more features are being integrated at the system level as its getting annoying that a system as powerful as the 360 can't multi-task.

 

[TheWretched]

And there already are games that install while you play on PS3. Fallout 3, Resident Evil 6 and, to a degree, Gran Turismo 5.

 

[scently]

And there already are games that install while you play on PS3. Fallout 3, Resident Evil 6 and, to a degree, Gran Turismo 5.

Indeed. I think its a fantastic feature, it will definitely help in reducing load time.

Anyway as for the kinect 2.0 itself, it seems to have been massively improved in all areas. Can track more players (from 2-6), can track more points and with greater fidelity, the color camera res has been massively improved, the depth camera res has been doubled, the range has been increased and it seems to have added an IR camera for increased tracking. If the rumors are true that they are switching to a time-of-flight camera tech, then that will reduce latency. Hopefully has an internal processor as that will also reduce latency I feel. Mind you, the original kinect can perform better than it is actually performing but for the usb data transfer limit.

 

[bkilian]

Having the Kinect available does not mean every game has to use it, but developers can expect it to be there. And I dislike how many assume Kinect support just means you're going to be waggling your entire body around as I think voice control is a huge asset to many games if implemented correctly.

I'm glad more and more features are being integrated at the system level as its getting annoying that a system as powerful as the 360 can't multi-task.

One of the reasons you believe the 360 is so "powerful" is because it doesn't (well it does, but not the way you're referring to) multitask. The devs can rely on the fact that the CPU cache is all theirs, this allows them to design algorithms that are _much_ more efficient than on a general purpose PC.