Next NV High-end

[_xxx_]

Why would they release a 512MB G70 on 90nm?

I doubt it too, but IF they did, the reason is clear - higher clocks, less power.

 

[Ailuros]

While the reason might be clear to you it doesn't make much sense right now.

Any 90nm G7x future GPU will aim to compete against R580 IMHO and not R520. I don't see a possible 512MB 7800GTX to be on anything lower than 110nm/TSMC, as I don't expect the 90nm R580 competitor to just have higher frequencies and higher speced ram; it just won't be sufficient to compete against it. All IMHO of course and purely speculative.

 

[_xxx_]

Yeah, agreed. But we still have no idea what R580 will look like in terms of clockspeed/die size etc., so I believe nV will do another chip (=severe changes to G70) to compete against R580

 

[Ailuros]

Albeit those GFLOP theoretical numbers can get ridiculously meaningless, I wouldn't expect in any case less than ~220GFLOPs for R580 and I'm using the most conservative case I can think of.

 

[Jawed]

Albeit those GFLOP theoretical numbers can get ridiculously meaningless, I wouldn't expect in any case less than ~220GFLOPs for R580 and I'm using the most conservative case I can think of.

I think R580 is going to be severely texture-rate limited to show any difference most of the time.

Jawed

 

[Ailuros]

I think R580 is going to be severely texture-rate limited to show any difference most of the time.

Jawed

That wasn't my point; count the advantages and disadvantages while comparing R520 and G70. Now speculate further on R580 and G7x and think of what can be done without any gigantic changes in the latter to keep the former balance in final output.

 

[Jawed]

I thought you were talking about shader GFLOPs.

It seems to me that there aren't enough games that are seriously shader-bound, to take advantage of R580's apparent shader power.

NVidia's competitor for R580 seems to need a bit faster core, perhaps, and faster memory, 512MB of it.

Unless there's a huge swing in games in the next few months and suddenly shader rate becomes a dominant factor.



Jawed

 

[Geo]

I also speculate on some kind of 2-die 7xxx, kinda like SLI on one board but smaller.

Well, that's two of us, so we need a name for the committee now.

 

[neliz]

Well, that's two of us, so we need a name for the committee now.

Remember "SolidSnake" from nvNews, a couple of months ago he was allready showing screenshots of a "monster g7x" with 512-bit memory controller (being 2x256 bit.)
Up to then speculated to be the ultra.

To me it's quite obvious that nV is going multithreaded, first their drivers and It might be "wise" to have a separate dispatcher, much like r520's MC controller, controlling threads and a single memory pool for two dies, at 90nm heat shouldn't be a problem for g70 hardware.

Slap on a Fancy cooling solution and all the kids will buy it.
Why? well.. it's the end of the line for G7x and it seems like an excellent time to spend that R&D budget on something that could be implemented in a g80 refresh.

 

[Geo]

Okay, three of us.

I seem to recall you were an early and loud proponent that this is where they were headed, so you get to be chairman.

 

[neliz]

Okay, three of us.

I seem to recall you were an early and loud proponent that this is where they were headed, so you get to be chairman.

Well.. that was for the "Ultra"

so what if they moved G70 ultra to G72 ultra? It's giving them some months more to "play" and since it will be some time before DX10 games will appear I wouldn't be surprised if UE3 might be using multithreaded (at least for the cpu) heavily and offering an "Ultra - Premium" option.

okay.. I'm drifting off too far.. but still, R580 might dominate G72 (vanilla) but.. I *STILL* think nV is at least one step ahead of ati.

 

[_xxx_]

I *STILL* think nV is at least one step ahead of ati.

That's what I think, too. They had almost two years now (since final design of the NV40, G70 didn't take much resources nor budget)) to come up with some new designs, now they'll just cherry-pick the "features" and pack them into one monster of a chip IMHO. Basically, I think they're able to present a powerful alternative to _anything_ ATI might bring.

All pure speculation, of course.

 

[Sxotty]

Well, that's two of us, so we need a name for the committee now.

I have been thinking they would do this for awhile, but the reason given: That it will be transferable knowledge for future proucts, is to me a better supported idea.

 

[Ailuros]

Okay, three of us.

I seem to recall you were an early and loud proponent that this is where they were headed, so you get to be chairman.

*yawn*

 

[SugarCoat]

I thought you were talking about shader GFLOPs.

It seems to me that there aren't enough games that are seriously shader-bound, to take advantage of R580's apparent shader power.

NVidia's competitor for R580 seems to need a bit faster core, perhaps, and faster memory, 512MB of it.

Unless there's a huge swing in games in the next few months and suddenly shader rate becomes a dominant factor.



Jawed

Isnt shader bound games where we're headed? I was under the impression it was. I imagine much the same in R580 benchmarks, the G7X performing far better in current titles but in prediction benchmarks for relative future power the R580 dominates. Im not sure how smart that is marketing wise, perhaps very smart since alot of people would like to keep their cards more then a year, but only time will tell. Its not like the R520 doesnt give acceptable performance.

what's your new case SugarCoat? I'm looking at this Antec

This

Its very large 184 x 153 x 129 mm, i love all the space. It can take 2 PSUs, top and bottom and as well will run BTX or ATX form factor with very little work. I got the CrossFlow fan for it as well, very nice fan, blows right over the ram and motherboard/videocard and exhausted out the back. Its up there price wise but its really a great case.

 

[ANova]

Don't expect anything more then a 512 MB G70 with slightly higher clocks on 110nm. As far as vs the R580, probably 90nm with a 500-550 MHz clock and improved memory controller.

 

[KimB]

Isnt shader bound games where we're headed?

Yes. But I question ATI's timing. By the time we have games that are as shader-bound as the R580 needs, it seems to me that we'll be moving on to the next generation architectures anyway.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Yes. But I question ATI's timing. By the time we have games that are as shader-bound as the R580 needs, it seems to me that we'll be moving on to the next generation architectures anyway.

Curious, what do you think it should have "more of" as opposed to shader capability? If I were asked to point out one primary weak point of R520 as a chip I'd point right to the PS ALU's.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Curious, what do you think it should have "more of" as opposed to shader capability? If I were asked to point out one primary weak point of R520 as a chip I'd point right to the PS ALU's.

Agreed. IMO, while the mid range RV350 is short on pixel / texutre power, the high end R520 (relatively speaking) could use a bit more shader power.

 

[Ailuros]

Yes. But I question ATI's timing. By the time we have games that are as shader-bound as the R580 needs, it seems to me that we'll be moving on to the next generation architectures anyway.

Same goes obviously for NV's competing sollution. Unless someone would tell me that we'll see a DX10 part in early 2006.