Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shortbread]

Congrats to AMD, they must have done some magic to get a 12TF gpu ready in a console, when their current top end desktop part is below 10TF, and that's without RT and all the other stuff, not forgetting the high power use etc.

It seems the console space is doing something uniquely different in the wattage/TDP department (GPU wise anyhow) that usually requires a decent amount of cooling in the PC space on producing such ambitious performance targets. If everything is on the up-and-up with PS5/XBSX rumored or reported specs, then AMD has something really special in the PC wing ready to challenge Nvidia's RTX line.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Now I understand why phil said its form follows its function. You can use the console as a stool to sit on as you play!
I hope that doesn't affect the cooling though.
Trully revolutionary.

Now it can blow hot air right up your bum! Toasty!

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

No, people reach the conclusion that RDNA is more efficient than GCN by using the more (as you point out) relevant metric performance/transistor.
Radeon Vega 64: 12.5billion
Radeon 5700 XT: 10.3billion
At similar bandwidth, Navi still outperforms Vega 64 by (ballpark) 20%. Even if we normalize clocks, Navi still has a substantial performance/transistor advantage.

It is a game of definitions to try to pin an exact number on the difference. RDNA-console can probably tweak this a bit further, if nothing else because they can drop everything in the architecture that is motivated by computational loads or anything else that might be largely irrelevant in the consoles. (This is not likely to bring huge advances though, the biggest benefit probably lies in having the target for the architectural decisions being exactly defined.)

IIRC, the efficiency advantage in terms of transistors goes the other when compared to Polaris rather than Vega.
​

Thanks, I didn't know that. Why is the comparison different for the RX 480 to RX 5500?

RX 480 is Polaris.

Regards,
SB

 

[PSman1700]

It seems the console space is doing something uniquely different in the wattage/TDP department (GPU wise anyhow) that usually requires a decent amount of cooling in the PC space on producing such ambitious performance targets. If everything is on the up-and-up with PS5/XBSX rumored or reported specs, then AMD has something really special in the PC wing ready to challenge Nvidia's RTX line.

The pc part probably will be in the 15+ TF range, or even nearing 20TF.

 

[Adonisds]

IIRC, the efficiency advantage in terms of transistors goes the other when compared to Polaris rather than Vega.
​

RX 480 is Polaris.

Regards,
SB

Why should Navi be more efficient than Vega but as efficient as Polaris?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Why should Navi be more efficient than Vega but as efficient as Polaris?

Vega was a bit more focused on additional capability for the professional and enterprise space versus Polaris. That's a gross over simplification, however, as there was also a cost associated at playing catch up with NV in the consumer space.

Regards,
SB

 

[Proelite]

The pc part probably will be in the 15+ TF range, or even nearing 20TF.

I am expecting the highest end AMD GPU to have base perf of 64 x 128 x 2000 = 16TF.

 

[PSman1700]

Damn, nvidia has a problem.

 

[milk]

The pc part probably will be in the 15+ TF range, or even nearing 20TF.

Having seen how far MS went in reggards to design to keep their system cool, I now am worried that retail ps4 might look closer to that hideous devkit than we would have hoped for...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Damn, nvidia has a problem.

I wouldn't exactly worry about NV yet. Especially if we're comparing next years hypothetical AMD GPU to last years NV (Turing) GPU.

That said, I do hope that AMD gives them some healthy competition. It wouldn't hurt for AMD to outperform NV to light a fire under NVs behind.

Regards,
SB

 

[PSman1700]

I now am worried that retail ps4 might look closer to that hideous devkit than we would have hoped for...

No one seems to like it, there's no way Sony would do something like that.

That said, I do hope that AMD gives them some healthy competition.

If AMD can create a 12TF gpu for a mere console, NV will have some competition, which is good for prices.

 

[AzBat]

I don't understand the too-big-for-AV-cabinet complaint. How many people still use an AV cabinet? Everyone I know mount their TVs on a wall & then use floating wall shelves for a console & that's if they even have one. They also mount their sound bars on the wall under the TV. Almost all devices connected to a TV are small streaming boxes mounted on the back of the TV. Nobody has big monolithic VCR, DVD or AV receivers in a cabinet. If you stand the XBSX vertical it should be able to sit easily on a normal wall shelf. Think of vertical smart speakers like Alexa, Google Home etc.

Tommy McClain

 

[PSman1700]

I don't mind it, MS basically has a pre-build pc by now, with everything cross platform it doesn't matter.

 

[MrFox]

Having seen how fat MS went in reggards to design to keep their system cool, I now am worried that retail ps5 might look closer to that hideous devkit than we would have hoped for...

As long as it's front-to-back airflow and is stackable in my (pretty much full) equipment rack, I don't care how it looks.

There's no way it's going to be that gigantic weird devkit, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some aspects of it being dictated by engineering requirement. The xbox is that size and shape because it's an extremely efficient way to do the cooling. The only compromise is the height (whichever way you position it).

 

[persiannight]

What's the consensus on PS5 TF? Hearing 13.8, 12.8, 10.5... pick a flop.

 

[Barrabas]

What's the consensus on PS5 TF? Hearing 13.8, 12.8, 10.5... pick a flop.

Within 10 %, negligible difference, choice of 1.st party exclusive games and online buddies is what should lead to our choice of platform

100 posts

 

[MrFox]

What's the consensus on PS5 TF? Hearing 13.8, 12.8, 10.5... pick a flop.

As far as I can tell, there is no really credible leak so far. It's all over the map.

With MS being somewhat confirmed to be 12TF Navi, there is little room for speculations anymore. For sony it's still fair game to speculate anything, and at least we can be confident 12TF Navi is possible, there was a lot of pessimism about that some time ago.

 

[mpg1]

There's no way it's going to be that gigantic weird devkit, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some aspects of it being dictated by engineering requirement.

I think it will be basically be a slimmer "consumer looking" version of that devkit. It just seems too obvious with the fact that 'V' is the roman numeral for '5' and they deliberately incorporated the design into the devkit. Must be part of the cooling design.

 

[Scott_Arm]

As long as it's front-to-back airflow and is stackable in my (pretty much full) equipment rack, I don't care how it looks.

There's no way it's going to be that gigantic weird devkit, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some aspects of it being dictated by engineering requirement. The xbox is that size and shape because it's an extremely efficient way to do the cooling. The only compromise is the height (whichever way you position it).

The Xbox Series X is 6.3" tall and 12.2" wide if you lie it on it's side. As a comparison, most AV receivers are bigger than that in both height and width. It should fit in an AV cabinet easily.

 

[anexanhume]

What's the consensus on PS5 TF? Hearing 13.8, 12.8, 10.5... pick a flop.

Most can’t even agree that XSX is 12 TF after being told nearly explicitly so.