Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Rootax]

So now ms will have a PR problem if the yields/ the silicons are not good enough. I hope we have powerful consoles, but talking ambitious numbers this far from release, kind of dangerous imo.

 

[iroboto]

So now ms will have a PR problem if the yields/ the silicons are not good enough. I hope we have powerful consoles, but talking ambitious numbers this far from release, kind of dangerous imo.

MS left it at double the power of xbox one X.
The target is 12TF though (from leaks)

That's fairly safe for yields. They will have wiggle room for redundancy WGP and clock speeds.

But if they are sending out kits now; they should have some sense how yields are doing, but I agree that the pressure is on for them to deliver now.

 

[PSman1700]

Well if this is the case, then 12TF it is. A huge step for console gamers and a greater beneficial step for PC gamers.

Yes if true pc gamers are in for a great 2020. AMD is back in full force 9700Pro days again
Microsoft is killing it already.

Only with rtx2080 and above so very niche

A year from now that might not be very niche anymore. Most console users will be left on base ps4/one s hardware, not everyone is going to switch to 9th gen consoles from day one. A RTX3060/3070 level gpu is as niche as a Series X high end console late 2020.

bye bye AAA PC gaming and hello AAA console gaming.

People have been screaming the death of pc gaming for ages, yet it never happened. Same the other way around

I thought you talking about nextgen games and engines.

Most games will be playable on all the 3 hardcore platforms, aside from some Sony exclusives which remain exclusve to that platform.

I play only late at night because the PS4 Pro noise get on the nerve of my wife.

My base PS4 isn't much louder then my pc that's one metre from it, with audible surround volume it's not annoying.

DF said they have corroboration of 12TF navi? Or are they speculating based on the info going around?

10TF navi would absolutely break wattage records already.

Where did DF get the 12TF confirmation from? It should possible be considering we are on 16TF or higher next year probably for AMD/NV GPU's. Then we have a mid range GPU in there, in comparison. People need to think one year ahead.

Edit:

DF says it like this though?

''In the here and now though, it's all about Series X where there is still some ambiguity about just capable the system is. If we 'do the math', in raw teraflops alone, the new console is indeed a 12TF machine based on Microsoft's stated comparisons with Xbox One and the X. However, if we're dealing with performance in like-for-like workloads, the Navi architecture's improvements deliver more perf for your teraflop than prior GCN tech, and our tests suggest that a 9-10TF Navi GPU can provide the requisite doubling of performance up against Xbox One X even before other new architectural features come into play.''

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-xbox-series-x-reveal-analysis

 

[mrcorbo]

''In the here and now though, it's all about Series X where there is still some ambiguity about just capable the system is. If we 'do the math', in raw teraflops alone, the new console is indeed a 12TF machine based on Microsoft's stated comparisons with Xbox One and the X. However, if we're dealing with performance in like-for-like workloads, the Navi architecture's improvements deliver more perf for your teraflop than prior GCN tech, and our tests suggest that a 9-10TF Navi GPU can provide the requisite doubling of performance up against Xbox One X even before other new architectural features come into play.''

See iroboto's quote from the article. They have sources directly telling them 12TF and believe Windows Central also have good sources for their information.

 

[PSman1700]

See iroboto's quote from the article. They have sources directly telling them 12TF and believe Windows Central also have good sources for their information.

Then they don't have to come back to that 9 to 10TF anymore, but did anyway later in the article

 

[DieH@rd]

Universal support for KB/M in all games.

PS4 had keyb&mouse support from the 2013 launch [was used for launch MMOs], but devs did not care.

PS5 will support keyb&mouse at launch also [ff14 devs confirmed they are working on PS5 version], but again, non-MMO devs will not care.

 

[PSman1700]

They can't make KB/m standard like that, as not many will use it (MP etc). It is possible to play with PS controller on PC though, most games, SP and MP, but it isn't recommended in MP.

 

[iroboto]

'In the here and now though, it's all about Series X where there is still some ambiguity about just capable the system is. If we 'do the math', in raw teraflops alone, the new console is indeed a 12TF machine based on Microsoft's stated comparisons with Xbox One and the X. However, if we're dealing with performance in like-for-like workloads, the Navi architecture's improvements deliver more perf for your teraflop than prior GCN tech, and our tests suggest that a 9-10TF Navi GPU can provide the requisite doubling of performance up against Xbox One X even before other new architectural features come into play.''

He's not wrong about that - you're looking at it from it having to be one or the other which is where you are getting crossed.

If they launch a 9-10TF navi GPU it's 2x the the Xbox One X
Their insider sources say it's 12 TF Navi which is still greater than 2x Xbox One X.
Through corroboration with other sources it is a 12 TF target.

MS has 12TF target to achieve (which they are working towards) with a wiggle room of about 3 TF based on yields for the retail release. And now you know why Phil won't publicly confirm what it is. If things turn out as expected, 12TF will be the result.

TLDR; the worst case scenario will be 9-10 TF.

Its clear that their devkits are likely 12 TF today. The target is 12 TF. But the components used to make that hardware is likely higher in quality and more expensive and likely exceeds the budget in which consumers are willing to pay. From here to release they must work on getting the cost down for retail to hit the price points they want. Which failure to do so anywhere along the chain could result in a TF decrease.

 

[PSman1700]

Ok thanks that sums it up

 

[MrFox]

He's not wrong about that - you're looking at it from it having to be one or the other which is where you are getting crossed.

If they launch a 9-10TF navi GPU it's 2x the the Xbox One X
Their insider sources say it's 12 TF Navi which is still greater than 2x Xbox One X.
Through corroboration with other sources it is a 12 TF target.

MS has 12TF target to achieve (which they are working towards) with a wiggle room of about 3 TF based on yields for the retail release. And now you know why Phil won't publicly confirm what it is.

And the case is a clear indication that at least their target is very high. Nobody will be unhappy if they end up with 10-11TF because that would be the max possible. It's clearly planned for it.

I'm seriously wondering how boost clock will play out this gen. They could always have the 12TF raw max, but use say a 250W to 300W TDP limit.

 

[iroboto]

And the case is a clear indication that at least their target is very high. Nobody will be unhappy if they end up with 10-11TF because that would be the max possible. It's clearly planned for it.

I'm seriously wondering how boost clock will play out this gen. They could always have the 12TF raw max, but use say a 250W to 300W TDP limit.

This might be targeting so high because they are relying heavily on Lockhart to bolster their low end. I think you're in Canada like me? Eating 599 is the most I will be willing to pay for a new console, anything higher is just too much ; We got a deal IIRC, X1X launched at $499 USD which worked out to be $630-$640 CAD through direct conversion but we paid only $599.

 

[PSman1700]

Eating 599 is the most I will be willing to pay for a new console, anything higher is just too much

Let's hope the series X won't be 599, 499 seems a good spot, with MS taking some losses? 599 or more has never done anything good for consoles, even with lockhart there, i would want the XSX.

 

[MrFox]

This might be targeting so high because they are relying heavily on Lockhart to bolster their low end. I think you're in Canada like me? Eating 599 is the most I will be willing to pay for a new console, anything higher is just too much ; We got a deal IIRC, X1X launched at $499 USD which worked out to be $630-$640 CAD through direct conversion but we paid only $599.

Yeah and I'm in QC with 15% sales tax on top of the bad CAD conversion.

599 CAD for a 10 or 12TF navi console would be a superb value. If ps5 ends up 8 or 9TF, it might be 399 US and 499 CAD, but I continue to doubt this because of the SSD cost.

I'm not really sure we need a lockhart or ps5-gimp-edition if they can have the powerful sku at 499 US. The gen transition might be a bit slow the first year, later we get cost reduction on 5nm euv etc... They can lose money on the launch year or something.

I'm still on 1080p so it's going to be such a costly upgrade for me next year that the console price becomes negligible. 4K receiver and 4K high-end projector. Maybe a new sim racing rig.

 

[iroboto]

I'm still on 1080p so it's going to be such a costly upgrade for me next year that the console price becomes negligible. 4K receiver and 4K high-end projector. Maybe a new sim racing rig.

ho ho ho
The last bit was costly for me. I have a small steering wheel + pedals + base setup - still hit me for about 600 all in after tax.

Good luck to your build! The 4K stuff does get costly, I regret getting in at 2017; could have saved myself a lot more money. Hopefully it comes down in price to something much more reasonable by Black Friday 2020.

 

[PSman1700]

It's best to wait hardware prices will fall after this year.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Rumor has it that Samsung is investing big on microLED manufacturing.

I'd loathe to buy a new set now and then have mLED sets making it obsolete in 3 years-ish.

 

[goonergaz]

Let's hope the series X won't be 599, 499 seems a good spot, with MS taking some losses? 599 or more has never done anything good for consoles, even with lockhart there, i would want the XSX.

I’m not saying it won’t be 500, but when has 500 ever been a good spot!?

It will only be a good spot if PS5 is more or the same with less features/power.

 

[MrFox]

I’m not saying it won’t be 500, but when has 500 ever been a good spot!?

It will only be a good spot if PS5 is more or the same with less features/power.

499 was a good spot when the other guy was 599.

The last time 399 was possible was when the HDD was $37 on the BOM, now we have a confirmed nvme drive for both.

 

[PSman1700]

I’m not saying it won’t be 500, but when has 500 ever been a good spot!?

It will only be a good spot if PS5 is more or the same with less features/power.

If the PS5 is going to be 399, with a 10TF instead of 12TF GPU, with the rest of the system comparable, Sony already won that gen, again. Maybe MS wants to do another PS3, just for the sake of it

 

[MrFox]

If the PS5 is going to be 399, with a 10TF instead of 12TF GPU, with the rest of the system comparable, Sony already won that gen, again. Maybe MS wants to do another PS3, just for the sake of it

That would be crazy good pricing, but the estimated cost of parts doesn't add up without a massive loss per console. I'm not seeing sony making a 2 billion loss the first year for this.