Next gen lighting technologies - voxelised, traced, and everything else *spawn*

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by Scott_Arm, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Per Lindstrom

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    RTX, is RTX on and DLSS on, correct med if i am wrong.
     
  2. pharma

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    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...ctx-raytracing-to-geforce-10-16-series-cards/
     
  3. pharma

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    GDC 2019 Q2VKPT presentation:
     
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  4. Per Lindstrom

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    #1464 Per Lindstrom, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
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  5. DavidGraham

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    So after trying I can sum up the effect of RT shadows to this:

    -Adds soft high res shadows to everything, jaggies and low res shadows are 90% gone
    -Makes most point and small light cast shadows, like candles, fire crackers, small lamps .. etc, I say most because not all of them cast shadows. And No muzzleflashes don't cast them sadly.
    -Increases the number of objects that cast shadows and the number of shadows in any scene.

    When held up against my list, 5 points out of 6 are achieved, and one of them is partially achieved. Overall the effect of RT shadows is subtle in the game.

    Check
    Check
    Check, 90% successful, some flickering is noticed every now and then.
    partially checked, several small lights still don't cast shadows.
    Check
    Not checked, none of them cast shadows, which is a missed opportunity, and disappointing to say the least.

    So 5 out of 6 points, not bad, still the RT shadows improvements in the game are subtle and not readily apparent, unlike Battlefield's reflections or Metro's lighting.
     
    #1465 DavidGraham, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  6. pharma

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    It's possible any performance degradation might be due to lack of sufficient RT cores. The move to 7nm should increase the effectiveness of RT cores, but wonder if adding additional RT cores is feasible.

    https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pag...-graphics-performance-benchmark-review,8.html
     
  7. Dictator

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    Yes, the most important question.
    :x
     
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  8. OCASM

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    The Metro guys are remain the only devs commited to that feature...
     
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  9. JoeJ

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    Could you guys make some arguments of why you want to see shadows from muzzle flashes? (or similar flashy 'fx' light sources)
    I hear this often but i fail to see how or when this could be important.
     
  10. iroboto

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    lol but honestly. I had a chaotic crazy shootout with my squad in Division 2 in night time in the fog where we walked into an ambushed open area. It was tremendously awesome to be in such chaos, to have muzzle flashes that light up the environment and shadow would have sealed the deal.
     
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  11. TheAlSpark

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    Immersion for dark environments. In daytime, the brightness of muzzle flashes may not be sufficient though.
     
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  12. JoeJ

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    Ah, thanks - i see it makes a lot of sense in the dark. (Never noticed myself - too busy with hating emissive materials that only cause bloom to the environment :) )

    I don't know if denoising can work with such high frequency, or if noise would be just acceptable?
    But likely the effect is equally important for enemies as it is for the players gun fire. And we want omnidirectional lights, so with shadow maps this is expensive.
    Maybe a shadowed spotlight along the shot, plus a dimmed unshadowed point light could do the trick well enough.
     
  13. Woking-34

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    Hello, I'm the guy behind those benchmark scores. Fermat 2.0 introduced support for more complex materials and better samplers so one can't compare results with our previous results with Fermat 1.0. The newer edition requires less samples but produces less noise as well.
    512 passes is enough to stress the GPUs, each iteration gather one sample per pixel.
     
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  14. OCASM

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    Ultra high quality is not necessary. Somewhat wrong shadows > no shadows.

    Killzone 2 used spotlights to save on resources:

     
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  15. DavidGraham

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    #1475 DavidGraham, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  16. milk

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    Cool indeed, technologically speaking, but that execution is not very convincing.
     
  17. jlippo

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    They simply shouldn't have used it for leaves, it looks wrong.
    If they want light leaking through leaves properly they would need to handle it as light bounce and how it scatters out from leaf. (So handle shadow as if it is fully dark as light is diverted from it's original path and leak light trough with GI sampling with proper BRDF from leaf to get directionality to light.)

    Otherwise shadows look quite good.
     
    #1477 jlippo, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  18. NikiTo

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    Originally the artist decided in this setup it makes no sense for sharp shadows. With RTX it makes no sense, but it shows RTX can shadow map:

    Capturefdsfds.JPG

    Lot of objects failing to cast shadow as in Metro:

    Capturesdfdsfds.JPG

    Again it makes no sense for sharp shadows, but RTX needs to show to people it can do what shadow mapping can do:

    Capturetrtrtr.JPG

    About this - it is not necessarily an improvement:

    Capturerewrwerewrew.JPG

    This is just the same bad artifact as here:

    Capturegfdgfd.JPG

    Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/Shadow_of_the_Tomb_Raider_RTX_DLSS/2.html

    An improvement can be seen here:

    upload_2019-3-21_11-50-3.png

    I admit the game improved much in peter panning.

    Sometimes RTX makes it worse:

    upload_2019-3-21_11-44-10.png

    upload_2019-3-21_11-44-50.png

    The shadows of the leaves are mixing sharp shadows with blured shadows for RTX Off. Which is nearer to real life than RTX On version.

    Capturerewrew.JPG

    Transparent shadows of leaves are not an improvement.

    I personally take decisions only based on the way the final render looks. Visuals are mandatory as normal humans are not able to tell if complex reflections of reflections are correct or not. Most of people would not be able to tell which is more correct - env mapping or RT reflections.

     
  19. jlippo

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    Pretty sure in that scene there are plants near ground which cast those sharp shadows, so the RTX one is closer to the correct solution.
    Happily transparent leaves are only on with the Ultra setting, so use high to have proper shadows.
     
  20. NikiTo

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    Check the link of the source again, with RTX Off you get what you talk about, not with RTX On.
     
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