Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

For the next iPad, they may try to reduce power consumption in the display, with something like the IGZO. Then they could reduce battery capacity and then slim down the form factor again.

They may also try to reduce the bezel of the full size iPad, just as they were able to do with the Mini.

Then the bonding of the display to the cover glass and the reduction of reflections they're claiming for the new iMac may also be something they target for the next iPad.
 
I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom how they could achieve a 2x graphics improvement with a "quad core".
Doubling clocks for a 543MP4 configuration seems like a significant step up in power draw for just the assumed change in lithography, much beyond the A5 to A6 clock change. And it still wouldn't justify the 2x moniker unless you did something with the rest of the memory subsystem unless memory controller improvements alone provided the necessary boost. Possible I guess, but taken in conjunction with Apple actually underplaying their performance boosts somewhat lately, a 543MP4 simply with boosted clocks sounds like too little in the way of change.

That's why I speculated in a change to 554MP4, since it would allow a 3x improvement in ALU capabilities at reasonable clocks, while providing a lower than 2x improvement in all other respects => roughly a justified 2x moniker.

Regardless, I'm surprised. It will be very interesting to hear what the A6X actually contains.
 
I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom how they could achieve a 2x graphics improvement with a "quad core".
Doubling clocks for a 543MP4 configuration seems like a significant step up in power draw for just the assumed change in lithography, much beyond the A5 to A6 clock change.

iPhone4S = SGX543MP2@200MHz
iPhone5 = SGX543MP3@~325MHz

Else the A6 doesn't increase frequency just by N% compared to the A5 but also adds one more GPU core; a wee bit more complicated than that.

I can't disagree with the additional power draw though it the A6X truly contains a 543MP4@250MHz.

And it still wouldn't justify the 2x moniker unless you did something with the rest of the memory subsystem unless memory controller improvements alone provided the necessary boost. Possible I guess, but taken in conjunction with Apple actually underplaying their performance boosts somewhat lately, a 543MP4 simply with boosted clocks sounds like too little in the way of change.
To be honest I'm estimating the A6 GPU frequency from the fillrate scores for it. I couldn't imagine how it would be clocked at just 266MHz and yield a near 1.8 GTexels/s fillrate score. 6 TMUs * 266MHz = 1.596 GTexels/s. I can see your point though considering that the iPhone5 ends up over twice as fast as the 4S in graphics.

That's why I speculated in a change to 554MP4, since it would allow a 3x improvement in ALU capabilities at reasonable clocks, while providing a lower than 2x improvement in all other respects => roughly a justified 2x moniker.
For a 3x times arithmetic throughput you'd still need to go over 350MHz frequency for a MP4 and while ALUs are relatively cheap in hw, it's not that they're free in terms of hw either. Compared to an equally theoretical 543MP4@500MHz, doesn't sound like a such a huge power consumption difference all factors encounted, without necessarily being overall faster.

That shouldn't mean that you might not be on the right track at the moment; I just fail to see any worthwhile benefits for it from where I stand.

***edit: by the way the ARM T604 in the Exynos 5250 is supposed to reach 500MHz frequencies. It's also a 4 cluster core, albeit 1 TMU/cluster but I'd figure that native FP64 eats up quite a bit in die area instead too. That one is also a 32nm SoC and with partially significantly higher capabilities than any 543/544/544MP4 config.
 
That display size comparison with the Nexus 7, wish they done the same vs 10.1 inch android tablet.

I'm just looking for the biggest display possible while keeping weight down. The mini is a lot easier on the wallet than a galaxy note 2 when I really just want to web surf.
 
They may also try to reduce the bezel of the full size iPad, just as they were able to do with the Mini.
...Possibly, but the larger (and heavier!) form factor of the full-size pad would make it more difficult to hold if the bezel was made thinner, due to increased leverage being exerted on your fingers. Maybe not an issue for a dude with man-hands, but kids also use these things, so I'm sure it's something apple takes under consideration.

Also, "mis-clicks" might well be a factor with a thin(ner) bezel - especially while changing grip on the pad - something else that would need to be watched closely for during development. I'm not sure there's actually much to be gained to scale down the bezel; apple's big spiel with the ipad is how easy it is to use, and if you start making unwanted input on the touchscreen just by holding it...well, it would look really bad for the company!

Then the bonding of the display to the cover glass and the reduction of reflections they're claiming for the new iMac may also be something they target for the next iPad.
iPhone and iPads already use this direct bonding method of manufacture, and have done so for a number of years; iphone since generation 4 at least, and ipad right from the start I'd think.

Anyway... This announcement leaves me quite enthusiastic I must say. :D These new ipads are undoubtedly unvealed...errr...unveiled..now just to poop on microsoft's parade with windows rt or whatever the hell it's called this week. A6x twice as fast in graphics makes my heart palpitate with joy - actual performance awaiting to be independently verified of course, but since apple was fairly truthful last time when claiming the A5x was twice as fast as the A5, I expect them to not be lying (more or less anyway) this time as well.
 
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I'm just looking for the biggest display possible while keeping weight down. The mini is a lot easier on the wallet than a galaxy note 2 when I really just want to web surf.
Yeah, but what kind of phone do you have? The Note 2 is $100 more than an iPhone5 and $200 more than a S3 or iPhone4S. On top of that it's higher resolution, fits in most pockets, and has a stylus built in. If it works for you, you'll save you $460 for the iPad Mini LTE model.

If you're really considering it and it's not too big for you, then there's little point getting a high-priced 7.X" tablet unless you have no intention to upgrade your phone for a while.

$330 for a 1024x768 ARM tablet is, IMO, a ripoff in today's marketplace, and has way too little marginal benefit over a smartphone.
 
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If Rogue isn't available until mid-2013 for the A7, then this October/November refresh is a good halfway point between the March 2012 iPad 3 release and a June 2013 WWDC iPad 5 release. Then they may go back to March in 2014 for the iPad 6 where they will have the option of continuing a ~9 month refresh cycle or moving back to a 1 year cycle.
June 2013 WWDC iPad 5 release doesn't sound right to me. That would mean to introduce iOS 7 and an iPad 5 running iOS 6 at the same time. Right now I'm hoping for
2) just an additional one-off mid-cycle update, mainly because of Lightning and international LTE
because IMHO iPad in March, iOS preview in June, iPhone/iOS in Sepember and iPad mini / iPod touch in November is a nice schedule. I don't like the idea of Apple releasing every new iOS device in basically a 6 week window (late September until early November).
 
Yeah, but what kind of phone do you have? The Note 2 is $100 more than an iPhone5 and $200 more than a S3 or iPhone4S. On top of that it's higher resolution, fits in most pockets, has a stylus built in, and is $460 for the LTE model.

If you're really considering it and it's not too big for you, then there's little point getting a high-priced 7.X" tablet unless you have no intention to upgrade your phone for a while.

$330 for a 1024x768 ARM tablet is, IMO, a ripoff in today's marketplace, and has way too little marginal benefit over a smartphone.

I got a imported from Clove Galaxy Beam. I was going to buy the Note 2 (but probably won't put the sim in) as I found my Transformer Prime to be too heavy.

I'm hoping the mini will be comfortable for me to hold while still having a very large screen.
 
The 1.3 GHz dual-core Swift CPU generally achieved over twice the performance of the 800 MHz dual A9s of the iPhone 4S, so it could still be fair to characterize the same 1.3 GHz dual-core Swift, assuming that was its configuration in the A6X SoC, as "up to twice as fast" as even the 1 GHz third-gen iPad's dual A9. Also of note, the graph Apple showed for A6X's graphics improvement actually appeared to show slightly more than a 2X gain, for whatever that's worth.

Despite what may or may not be implied by the marketing (as unreliable as that is anyway), I think a ~500 MHz SGX543MP4 + 1.5 GHz dual-core Swift would not at all be an unreasonable/impractical configuration of the 32nm (Samsung) A6X since I've always maintained that a decent amount of headroom for scaling up from the A5X, even on 45nm, existed (and could've been exploited originally if not for Apple's need to play conservatively around the untested retina display and correspondingly super sized battery at the time). Sammy's 32nm may not allow a doubling of GPU clock for the same consumption, but the A5X was never the monster which was bumping its head against all cost ceilings by which it had been sometimes characterized through flawed testing (failing to really isolate the various factors) and assumptions (which are often times ignorant of the impact that changes to power management can have).
 
The 1.3 GHz dual-core Swift CPU generally achieved over twice the performance of the 800 MHz dual A9s of the iPhone 4S, so it could still be fair to characterize the same 1.3 GHz dual-core Swift, assuming that was its configuration in the A6X SoC, as "up to twice as fast" as even the 1 GHz third-gen iPad's dual A9. Also of note, the graph Apple showed for A6X's graphics improvement actually appeared to show slightly more than a 2X gain, for whatever that's worth.

Despite what may or may not be implied by the marketing (as unreliable as that is anyway), I think a ~500 MHz SGX543MP4 + 1.5 GHz dual-core Swift would not at all be an unreasonable/impractical configuration of the 32nm (Samsung) A6X since I've always maintained that a decent amount of headroom for scaling up from the A5X, even on 45nm, existed (and could've been exploited originally if not for Apple's need to play conservatively around the untested retina display and correspondingly super sized battery at the time). Sammy's 32nm may not allow a doubling of GPU clock for the same consumption, but the A5X was never the monster which was bumping its head against all cost ceilings by which it had been sometimes characterized through flawed testing (failing to really isolate the various factors) and assumptions (which are often times ignorant of the impact that changes to power management can have).
Given Apple's kept the same thickness (an increase over the iPad 2) and large battery, there may also be more thermal/power room available for the SoC due to savings from the new 40nm baseband, new 40nm WiFi/Bluetooth module, and more mature retina display.
 
I'm not in the least worried about the 4th generation iPad performance, contrary to the iPad mini. One might argue that user experience comes before performance, but I doubt that higher performance is not an additional selling point either way you turn it.

In short of the mini sports only iPodTouch5/iPhone4S performance, I'm not that sure that the sales will reach that easily Apple's own projections and yes that's just me.
 
I'm not so concerned about CPU performance; IMO, even the iPhone4 has "enough" CPU grunt to do the stuff you generally do on a portable device, but we've already passed a good deal beyond that level quite a while ago now.

What I'm most interested about is what Apple's done with the memory compared to A5X generation CPU, if anything at all. Faster clocked LPDDR3 maybe? That'd be so sweet!
 
I'm not in the least worried about the 4th generation iPad performance, contrary to the iPad mini. One might argue that user experience comes before performance, but I doubt that higher performance is not an additional selling point either way you turn it.

In our house we have the original iPhone, the iPhone4, 4s, 5, and iPad2. And soon the iPad4.
The original iPhone feels sluggish, but the 4s and iPad2 represent rather modest improvement in user experience over the iPhone4, and my iPhone5 is pretty much indistinguishable from the 4s/iPad2, judging from what we do with our devices. Doing the experiment of loading heavy web-sites on all devices, plus my new and running above spec PC, demonstrates that pulling ads from the advertisers and the bandwidth of our miserable 15Mbit/s ADSL swamp the differences in processing ability from the 4s and upwards, where the A4 of the iPhone4 was a factor of two slower on one of the websites (Anandtech, incidentally) than on the PC and iPhone5 (same time). Loading bloated websites is pretty much the only thing that feels slow on our iOS devices, and there's not much Apple can do about it now.

So I'd say that increasing CPU performance at this point is more about creating margins for future applications. There's a value in that, and it is an additional selling point to be sure, but it is up against direct and tangible benefits in battery life, weight and form factors. Personally I doubt that a new killer app that requires oodles of processing power will materialize. PCs have had a decade or so without coming up with anything new that is demanding and which interests a large proportion of users. So even if Apple sees these devices as replacing PCs (and they do), that doesn't really provide any impetus to increase CPU performance in the future much beyond current low end PC levels. They are surprisingly close already.

But replacing PCs is not all these devices are about, which brings us to form factors.

In short of the mini sports only iPodTouch5/iPhone4S performance, I'm not that sure that the sales will reach that easily Apple's own projections and yes that's just me.

I'm sure it will sell well, not primarily due to lower price, but because the size is much better for mobile use than the original iPad. 66% of the screen area at half the weight and the same battery life is tempting in its own right. Sorry Jony Ive, but the original iPad is too clumsy - and I'm speaking as an enthusiastic owner. (Incidentally, the same goes for cameras for me. Just replaced my FF canon system with an Olympus E-M5, but 500-600g is still just too much to tote around when added to everything else.)

When it comes to mobility, tablets should be compared to cell phones, not portable computers which nobody in their right mind carries around with them all day unless required to do so for job reasons.

So for those who really value portability, the e-book/textbook/school market, et cetera, the iPad mini is simply the superior device. And cheaper.

The larger iPads, which can be more squarely aimed at PC replacement, should get rid of that bulky bezel, and use one like the iPhone5 has. That would make the screen exactly 3cm wider and 4cm higher, or a 11.7-inch screen if that's easier to relate to. That would make the screen area 2.2 times greater than the iPad mini, and would allow the screen resolution to yield more practical utility. Without affecting the overall dimensions, this would also allow a clearer diffentiation between large and small iPads in terms of utility and target uses. All IMHO obviously.
 
iPhone 5 can do Siri-directed turn by turn which the iPhone 4 can't. That's probably not due only to CPU differences but also RAM.

GPU for scrolling, zooming and rotating 3D maps probably matters as well.
 
The GPU certainly is critical to a smooth 3D Maps experience, but neither Siri-like functionality nor voice guided navigation really requires more than even an ARM9 (not Cortex) from the CPU side with a solidly designed app.
 
Probably true, A9 would be enough.

Certainly way more power than a standard PND like a Garmin, where you can't scroll or zoom around.

The Overview screen on the iOS navigation is really useful for seeing the whole route it calculates. Then it rotates and zooms in to show the immediate surroundings. REally a slick effect.


I remember when RISC processors were first introduced and speech recognition was supposedly one of the applications enabled by the power. Of course, that was like 15 years ago and speech did not displace traditional forms of input.
 
So it appears they were very conservative when clocking the A6X at 1.4 Ghz in the new iPad (model 3,4).

At least if we are to believe this Geekbench score.

It shows a modest improvement compared to the iPhone 5 (1644 vs 1757).

Now we just have to wait to see some graphic benchmarks.
 
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