Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

Hmmm. I initially suggested it as a possibility a few posts earlier in post 1567
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1674884&postcount=1567

Ok congratulations to you too :p

On a more serious note I never would expected the 554 to scale as well, but on the other hand 2.5 is quite ALU intensive. 2.1 is less ALU intensive, but when the iPad3 already gets nearly 90 fps in offscreen, mostly investing into floating point performance seems to make sense after all, despite that I didn't have it easy to believe it up to now.

At least we know now who licensed 554 and that riddle has also been answered now.
 
Ok congratulations to you too :p

Gosh...thanks..and totally unprompted by me :)

On a more serious note I never would expected the 554 to scale as well, but on the other hand 2.5 is quite ALU intensive. 2.1 is less ALU intensive, but when the iPad3 already gets nearly 90 fps in offscreen, mostly investing into floating point performance seems to make sense after all, despite that I didn't have it easy to believe it up to now.

I find it interesting that not only does the off screen performance increase by x1.8, but the onscreen performance, with 50% more pixels than offscreen, also increases by x1.8. The chip would appear to be very well speced in terms of bandwidth etc

At least we know now who licensed 554 and that riddle has also been answered now.

Indeed
 
Assuming geek bench is reporting the CPU speed correctly @1400mhz, then it's not easy to get a.260mhz clock from that. A divide by 5 would get you 280mhz, which might explain the exact 13% increase in fill rate (280mhz is 13% increase on 250mhz)

Quite possible.
Well, now that we know, what understanding can we glean from it? I would have imagined that fill rate would be more generally useful for the iPad4 than ALU power, but Apple obviously disagrees. So - where did the iPad3 suffer from an ALU deficiency? Or, is there anything upcoming that will benefit from the beefy ALU capabilities, and if so, what could it be?
 
The one thing this doesn't account for is that those scores came from all sorts of different Geekbench versions. In most cases they're probably much older than the current Apple ones. That means one could be compiled with compilers that are as much as 8 years older.

Geekbench is really not a good benchmark, it's so poorly regulated and reported :/
In retrospect, I feel the largest contribution by far of SPEC is how it helped bring awareness of compilers into focus generally, and in benchmarking particularly. It's unfortunate that its influence has waned.

In this case, using geekbench is better than the alternatives (Java and browser benchmarks). Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do any back of the envelope estimations at all, and that would be pretty boring.

So - I went back and looked at Intels latest and greatest in low power processors. The 17W Ivy Bridge i5-3317U made on Intels 22nm Tri-Gate process. Making comparisons gets a bit rockier, due to Turbo technology among other things. I focussed on single threaded performance to ensure that the frequency would stay high (2.6 GHz), and also because comparing cores was what I was interested in for this exercise.

First things first: the overall Geekbench score is 5147, or just under three times that of Apples iPad4. So that is overall where it stands today using this benchmark, tablet vs. expensive ultraportable, and very roughly an order of magnitude difference in power draw.

If we look at the six single threaded integer benchmarks the average factor the Intel processor is faster is 2.37, or 1.28 adjusted for frequency
For the six single threaded floating point benchmarks the average factor the Intel processor is faster is 2.61, or 1.40 adjusted for frequency.

The memory subtests show a wider spread, but show a somewhat greater advantage for the Ivy Bridge, as expected.

The nice thing about these numbers is that they are consistent with the Core2Duo results, so we have no reason to be more suspicious than normal. And the indication is that Ivy Bridge has an architectural IPC advantage over Apple Swift, but that it is remarkably modest given the increase in complexity, roughly a third higher. What that implies is that Intel can't bank on architectural refinement carrying their day in coming CPU battles. (Indeed I'd be inclined to say that the experiment indicate that ARM has the architectural leg up, but that's a rather involved discussion.) Also, Intels advantage in process technology is factored in here.

Of course from a business point of view, the Intel Core i5-3317U has a tray price of $225, while the cost of the A6x should be roughly $20. I think there are some conclusions to be drawn from that and the power figures for the future, but I'll refrain for now, and allow tangey to get his in first. ;)
 
Quite possible.
Well, now that we know, what understanding can we glean from it? I would have imagined that fill rate would be more generally useful for the iPad4 than ALU power, but Apple obviously disagrees. So - where did the iPad3 suffer from an ALU deficiency? Or, is there anything upcoming that will benefit from the beefy ALU capabilities, and if so, what could it be?
Maybe mobile OpenCL support will finally be making an appearance.

I see chipworks has done their thing.
A6X 30% larger than A6 @ 123mm2

A6 has 3 GPU cores, A6X has 4 (no surprises there)

Each 543 core in the A6 is 5.4mm2. Each 554 in the A6X is 8.7mm2

http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recentteardowns/2012/11/01/inside-the-apple-ipad-4-a6x-to-be-revealed/
It's interesting that other than the CPU, all the other digital logic on the SoC has been re-laid out again. Given that the A6 was already hand laid, I wonder what they are optimizing for now that requires doing it all again?

I still find it surprising that Apple put out 4 different SoC this year including a shrink (32nm A5), a significant expansion in memory bandwidth and GPU (A5X), and two different hand laid out chips with a custom CPU architecture and two different GPUs (A6, A6X).

Now that Apple's invested in SGX554MP driver support, even with Rogue on the horizon, I wonder if this means there are still future SoC in the pipeline that will use the SGX554MP. Rogue may be coming to the 2013 iPad and iPhone, but perhaps the 2013 iPad Mini and iPod Touch won't be using the SGX543MP3 based A6 but will use another A6 variant with the SGX554MP.
 
Maybe mobile OpenCL support will finally be making an appearance.


I still find it surprising that Apple put out 4 different SoC this year including a shrink (32nm A5), a significant expansion in memory bandwidth and GPU (A5X), and two different hand laid out chips with a custom CPU architecture and two different GPUs (A6, A6X).

Its probably 5, didn't they also die shrink the A5X, ie.the newer ipad3's have a 32nm A5X
 
anandtech did an article over the summer where apple used a die shrink A5X to "test the waters" so to speak with 32nm. I'll see if I can find it.....

...sorry I was confused, that was the die shrunk A5 you referred to, which was used in some newer Ipad2s.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/5789/the-ipad-24-review-32nm-a5-tested


Unless I'm imagining things, the ipad4 2.5 glbenchmark just got uprated to 5858..I think it was 54xx earlier today.

...yes indeed
http://www.glbenchmark.com/subtest_results_of_device.jsp?D=Apple+iPad+4&id=448&benchmark=glpro25
 
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/6426/ipad-4-gpu-performance-analyzed-powervr-sgx-554mp4-under-the-hood

Chipworks' analysis of the GPU cores helps support this: "Each GPU core is sub-divided into 9 sub-cores (2 sets of 4 identical sub-cores plus a central core)."

I believe what we're looking at is the 8 Vec4 SIMDs. The 9th "core" is likely the extra ALU that all of the modern PowerVR GPUs have. We typically don't count it in the spec tables as I'm not really clear as to what its role is, but there's more theoretical compute power than what we list here.

No IMHO for the "9th core" being some sort of additional ALU. In fact I might just have broken the riddle why the 554MP4 fairs better with geometry than a 543MP4.
 
Do you think that block contains extra (fixed function?) geometry hardware?

I've never found out where the 9th FLOP per ALU comes from but other architectures like Adreno for instance have SFUs which can be under conditionals used for another additional single FLOP. I don't see why Series5XT ALUs should be different in that regard and why it should be visible on a die shot and on top of that as clearly.

You might be close in your guess up there.
 
The other die area visible on the 554s outside of the USSE2s isn't another ALU or responsible for the 9th flop or anything like that. It's the rest of the GPU entirely. There's not 9 cores. Just one, with 8 USSE2s as the main delineated blocks you can see.
 
There's no increase in geometry rate per core either, compared to 543 or 544.
 
I'm assuming that the GPU block in A6X is not clocked significantly higher than in A5X; bares the question why the first does so much better with geometry than the latter.

http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....tified_only=1&D1=Apple iPad 4&D2=Apple iPad 3

Those tests are probably shader bound instead of triangle setup bound. That'd explain why iPad 4 has a bigger advantage in the fragment lit case vs the vertex lit case, where fragments need more shading time therefore leaving less left over for vertex shading, and why the gap gets worse with onscreen where there are presumably more fragments per triangle.
 
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