Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation
- Thread starter Arun
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I'm not just talking about the operating costs. OFDM itself is a far more versatile modulation technique compared to WCDMA. The network architecture of a separate command channel -- separate from the data channel -- also significantly reduces latency and dropped packets.
The various off-spins of LTE -- though some TD and some FD -- all still use OFDM for their base modulation.
The various off-spins of LTE -- though some TD and some FD -- all still use OFDM for their base modulation.
Slightly OT, but it appears that Motorola intends to continue with their larger-battery experiment:
http://www.gsmarena.com/icspowered_motorola_droid_fighter_leaks-news-3991.php
I'll assume it supports LTE so, perhaps, this is necessary for good battery life for the device?
french toast
Veteran
No i think they might go with something like 2 cortex a15s and 1 a7 for low end tasks...that and maybe that custom dsp someone brought up a few pages ago...
french toast
Veteran
Yep, what happens when you tack another 2 GPU cores and keep the same process?? you get a mobile toaster
http://www.intomobile.com/2012/03/20/new-ipad-runs-10-degrees-hotter-than-ipad-2-apple-a5x-blame/
I really think Apple missed a trick here..had they covered the back with some non stick teflon..you could knock up a fried egg sarnie whilst you surf the tinterweb!
Considering that the new iPad is roughly the same size as iPad 2, but with a 70% larger battery, while at the same time maintaining roughly the same battery life, I think it's safe to assume that the new iPad consumes power 70% more than iPad 2.
So from the thermal image, the ambient temperature looks like to be around 21 ~ 22 degrees. That means the hottest point of iPad 2 is around 6 ~ 7 degrees above ambient. The new iPad is 12 ~ 13 degrees so that's roughly 85% ~ 100% more heat. Not much more than the estimated 70%.
It may be possible to spread the heat more evenly to reduce "hot spot," but it looks like that the new iPad is already quite evenly heated.
Furthermore, I wouldn't put all the blame on the A5X. Yes, it's possible if using a better process that the SoC can be more power efficient, but the elephant in the room is still the new screen and the required back light. In general, a screen with smaller pixels block more light, so it needs better back light to maintain the same brightness. However, macro images from Anandtech here shows that iPhone 4S's screen may actually be more efficient than the new iPad. So maybe there's still some hope.
So from the thermal image, the ambient temperature looks like to be around 21 ~ 22 degrees. That means the hottest point of iPad 2 is around 6 ~ 7 degrees above ambient. The new iPad is 12 ~ 13 degrees so that's roughly 85% ~ 100% more heat. Not much more than the estimated 70%.
It may be possible to spread the heat more evenly to reduce "hot spot," but it looks like that the new iPad is already quite evenly heated.
Furthermore, I wouldn't put all the blame on the A5X. Yes, it's possible if using a better process that the SoC can be more power efficient, but the elephant in the room is still the new screen and the required back light. In general, a screen with smaller pixels block more light, so it needs better back light to maintain the same brightness. However, macro images from Anandtech here shows that iPhone 4S's screen may actually be more efficient than the new iPad. So maybe there's still some hope.
In portables I've always found that if anything, it's the WiFi component and related stuff that gets hot before almost anything else. I'm not sure why, but is it at all possible that it is in fact the 4G/LTE components that are responsible for the heat?
Of course, the iPad 2 also has to work harder, but the iPhone 4's at work that overheat generally do so without running anything, so it could be related.
Of course, the iPad 2 also has to work harder, but the iPhone 4's at work that overheat generally do so without running anything, so it could be related.
The occasions when my phones or tablets have gotten excessively warm have rarely coincided with running any intensive active applications.
As suggested, the various radios seem to sometimes trigger a sudden build up of heat, like shortly after I've turned on Bluetooth or WiFi. It's rare, and a reboot fixes it quickly which makes me suspect a software issue caused the radios to search/seek too much. Sometimes it seems to happen when a background process like data syncing gets stuck and just loops over and over.
As suggested, the various radios seem to sometimes trigger a sudden build up of heat, like shortly after I've turned on Bluetooth or WiFi. It's rare, and a reboot fixes it quickly which makes me suspect a software issue caused the radios to search/seek too much. Sometimes it seems to happen when a background process like data syncing gets stuck and just loops over and over.
If that were true, people would be complaining about the Playstation Vita, and that has a quad-core CPU to deal with too, though aluminum doesn't conduct heat as well as plastic.
It's likely a combination of factors that will probably get investigated more thoroughly with a much more scientific method than just measuring temps of the back panel. But that takes time, not something you're going to do in 2-3 days.
There are a lot of different things that can occur to cause rapid heat up. Of course, having cores that draw a lot more power makes such cases more frequent but that's not to say one chip with 4xsomething will have the same issues of sometimes overheating as others. Latchup is a big problem in modern semiconductor design and some chips can avoid it with careful design/thermal control.
Go beyond that threshold though, and the only way to stop it from self-heating itself is to shut off VDD.
It's the other way around. Aluminum conducts heat way better than plastic.
We do not know the clock speed of the PS Vita and it is twice as thick as the iPad 3rd generation, so I am not entirely sure what you would get from that comparison?
But yeah, it is probably a combination of the screen needing a better backlight solution, the SoC, cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, BlueTooth, battery and the thinness of the device.
But I don't see 3 million complain about heat issues, so it may be a few deviant iPads, as you would expect from such a large quantity.
Yeah you can't compare them very well. The Vita has both a quad GPU and CPU of course, and apart from the screen it has everything except the 4G / LTE stuff, including WiFi, BlueTooth, 3G, GPS, etc. But the Vita doesn't seem to even get vaguely warm (at least I haven't noticed anything) and I definitely woouldn't be surprised if the distance between the screen and those components is a big help there too. I could imagine the screen being close enough to the WiFi or similar they could heat each other up. The original PSP could get pretty hot when WiFi was active.
Isn't the Sony CXD5315GG SoC on a 40 nm lithography as well?
Although I am pretty sure the Apple A6 would alleviate all of these problems, considering it would go from a 45 nm process down to 28 nm (I am guessing) and more power-efficient cores for both CPU (Cortex-A15 or custom ARM7v) and GPU (PowerVR Series 6 "Rogue").
Tick/tock enabling them to make a bigger splash with the iPad 4th generation, which will be slimmer, much faster and have longer battery time. They are definitely making it easy for their marketing department.
Although I am pretty sure the Apple A6 would alleviate all of these problems, considering it would go from a 45 nm process down to 28 nm (I am guessing) and more power-efficient cores for both CPU (Cortex-A15 or custom ARM7v) and GPU (PowerVR Series 6 "Rogue").
Tick/tock enabling them to make a bigger splash with the iPad 4th generation, which will be slimmer, much faster and have longer battery time. They are definitely making it easy for their marketing department.
ltcommander.data
Regular
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5687/apple-tv-3-2012-mini-review/2
I'm also curious where the iPad2,4 reference comes in. Has Apple quietly revved the iPad 2 with the new chip when they moved it down to $399? With half the memory bandwidth that would fragment the iPad 2 performance profile, which you'd think Apple would want to avoid just to save a few dollars.
Anandtech has reviewed the Apple TV 3 and report that the single core A5 is indeed a unique chip. It now carries a S5L8942 part number versus S5L8940 of the original A5 and is equipped with 1x512MB LPDDR2 on a single 32-bit memory bus instead of 2x256MB LPDDR2 on a 2x32-bit memory bus. The chip is also smaller at 13.02 mm x 14.02 mm versus the original 16.7 x 14.3 mm. All the interest has been on the Apple A5X, but hopefully someone eventually images the die to figure out what has changed here.
I'm also curious where the iPad2,4 reference comes in. Has Apple quietly revved the iPad 2 with the new chip when they moved it down to $399? With half the memory bandwidth that would fragment the iPad 2 performance profile, which you'd think Apple would want to avoid just to save a few dollars.