Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

[Mariner]

If the iPhone 4S is anything to go by, all capacities seem to sell well.

I'm not surprised to hear this.

I went away last weekend with a Stag Party and, out of 21 people (a group of men in their late 30s), probably 15 of them had an iPhone 4, of which perhaps 5 were the 4S. I was pretty amazed with this!

Some of my especially un-techie friends had these phones as well though I don't think they really used them for much more than calls or texts!

 

[wco81]

Which part of getting an extra $100 for something that might only otherwise sell for $30 don't you understand

I'd wager they sell at least as many 32gb ipads as 16gb.

However, as far as I'm concerned, the reason is to do with ecosystem control. It's far from trivial for the average person to get non-itunes/ripped/downloaded content into/out of an ipad or iphone compared to other platforms. While to users that may seem restrictive, to content providers its brilliant. It means the vast majority of paid content on ios is actually paid for, hence content providers see ios as more secure platform and are more aminable to provide for it. The fact that to get software onto an iphone requires it go thru apples approval process also means the chances of there being software available to circumvent the above is much reduced (I'm ignoring jailbreaking as its pretty irrelevant in real terms).

It is not by accident that there is no USB, no external storage, and no file transfer via bluetooth on ios.

I am a bit surprised that apple allows the likes of ( errr I think its called AVplayerHD, don't have my ipad to hand), that allows playing of virtually any movie format and more importantly supports for wifi (non-itunes) transfer of media.

I'm guessing the codec support out of the box also has something to do with paying royalties for the codecs. So if a third party come out with apps. which transcode, then Apple doesn't have to pay for it, presumably.


On the Samsung Slate, sounds nice but most of the time, I'd be using it for consuming media, especially in bed or on the couch, situations where the form factor is superior than the clamshell.

The editing of photos, which a very important function, is not a daily activity, so that's not the highest criteria.

I did hear the other day that Avid has come out with an app. to compete against iMovie on the iPad. Maybe Adobe will get over the hurt over Flash and port Lightroom for iOS, think about making some money on mobile.

 

[wco81]

I'm not surprised to hear this.

I went away last weekend with a Stag Party and, out of 21 people (a group of men in their late 30s), probably 15 of them had an iPhone 4, of which perhaps 5 were the 4S. I was pretty amazed with this!

Some of my especially un-techie friends had these phones as well though I don't think they really used them for much more than calls or texts!

We've alluded to the fact that iPhone appeals to non-tech customers, including those who don't follow the specs of phones.

Those who do continually scratch their heads about how iPhone continues to sell well despite not having the latest SOC and components (though certainly they hold their own in overall performance and smoothness of the UX).

 

[french toast]

I always said a speed bump to cpu @ gpu, 1gb LPddr3..that fits in with their tick tock strategy, i don't see them redesigning the processor 1 year later, especially as A15s aren't out of the door yet..nor rogue.

A7 with the above apple trickery, duel A15, duel Rogue, 2gb ddr4, its going to blow the bloody doors off!

 

[dagamer]

The problem with that theory is, that they seem to have the habit of first trying there new stuff in the iPad, and then releasing it in the Cell Phone. What makes sense... They can build up software, have less worries with battery ( bigger battery ), etc.

If they stick with a Dual Core, it means two possibilities: A9 or A15 based CPU.

A faster A9 dual core, is not going to cut it. Last generation is Dual 1Ghz, while Tegra3 is already Quad 1.3Ghz ( with 1.4Ghz Single Core boost ). Assuming they stay with same manufacturing process. If they go with 28nm, then there really is no reason why they can not go Quad Core?

Unless they want to increase the Speed to extreme high on the same manufacturing process, but we all know that higher speed = more battery drain ( its like trying to overclock a CPU on a manufacturing process, there is a limit on how fast you can clock a CPU without exponentially increasing the power consumption & heat output ).

Or a A15, forget about seeing a A15 on same manufacturing process. That is just silly to design a new architecture in there A6 SOC, and stick to same manufacturing process. It will limit the speed.

And Apple Waiting another year while staying at same manufacturing process... And why increase the battery design then? Only for the screen...

Then its not going to be a iPad3, but a iPad2s.

Don't know, something smell wrong with this picture. Especially how little information there is. With those Quad Core "leaks" you had some visual information, that fit. CPU Number, Quad Core, 1GB memory, ...

But now all we get is a dual picture with bigger battery claim ( Check ), and for the rest not a single piece of evidence to back up the other claims. Hmmmm ...

Lets just say, i'm very skeptical about this claim. To me it does not make sense to stay Dual core, unless they can go A15 28nm.

Simply put, are there mass people going to by a iPad3(2s), with these specs? If people do not see it as a major upgrade, in general people with a iPad2 will stick to there "old" one = less sales.

And you also run the risk, that the iPad3(2s) is "old", we got Tegra3 already out, Tegra3 ( 28nm not far off ), Krait ( 28nm ), and several other designs coming out in the next few months.

And seeing as they mention a beefier GPU, but CPU is just mentioned as Dual core. The only way i see a Dual Core design in the iPad3, while being considered a major upgrade from the iPad2, if the push a A15 28nm in there.

People don't buy the iPad because of it's specs, they buy it because of the experience they get. And they do not publicly play the spec war game, often hiding what most would consider standard information from the public like CPU speed and amount of RAM. Apple does not care if there are tablets that have quad-core CPUs, especially if they still continue to have worse performance than their tablet.

Also, keep in mind that few tasks ever take true advantage of 4 CPUs, especially in a mobile environment. And trying to design apps that take advantage of more than 2 cores is a tough proposition.

Simpler is always better. I expect a conservative 50% clock bump to the CPU to 1.5Ghz and equal bump to the GPU. End users don't care what's inside the A6 SoC, just the end result.

 

[french toast]

We've alluded to the fact that iPhone appeals to non-tech customers, including those who don't follow the specs of phones.

Those who do continually scratch their heads about how iPhone continues to sell well despite not having the latest SOC and components (though certainly they hold their own in overall performance and smoothness of the UX).

...The Iphone 4s IS the most powerfull phone out on the market...
And part of that performance superiority is that closed enviroment and smooth software, no flash web browsing nor proper multitasking helps too.

 

[AlphaWolf]

...The Iphone 4s IS the most powerfull phone out on the market...

You can make a damn good argument for a number of other phones that perform better in various tests, but perhaps not GLBenchmark.

 

[Lazy8s]

The marginal difference in CPU performance that Apple intentionally trades off isn't the heavy lifting that contributes most to the processing of the user experience, as iOS's browser, games, video capabilities, and UI clearly demonstrate. So, no, various other tests outside of GLBenchmark don't make such a good case for the competitiveness of other phones.

Between SGX, VXD, and VXE, the 4S is quite the powerhouse.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Did you just say apple intentionally makes their browser slower than the competition?

 

[Lazy8s]

Not at all. The smoothness of Safari while scrolling and zooming is among the best in mobile devices. From the processing side, Apple puts the resources where they need to be, and that place is not the CPU first and foremost.

The experience starts with software, of course. But Apple knows the multimedia processors like the GPU, video encoder, and video decoder will have a major impact on the typical usage scenarios.

 

[wco81]

You would think strategically, they would optimize apps. over the browser, as apps. are their advantage over Android.

Not only that, diverting usage from browser to apps. denies mobile search revenues to Google.

 

[silent_guy]

You would think strategically, they would optimize apps. over the browser, as apps. are their advantage over Android.

I think that the best strategy is to optimize for best user experience all around.

Apps are a major advantage, but Safari is still the most used 'complex' app. And a lot of other apps have a browser component embedded.

 

[ltcommander.data]

You would think strategically, they would optimize apps. over the browser, as apps. are their advantage over Android.

They may be relying on app developers acting in their own best interests and app competition for that. With so many alternatives available on the App Store, developers really ought to put their best foot forward to make a sale, so decent performing apps should be a developer priority. Having fewer SoC and devices to target on iOS probably helps developers to optimize too. Apple also has some control of the app performance situation by making available lots of frameworks so that developers don't have to reinvent the wheel and Apple can keep those frameworks performance optimized. Apple may also be vetting out the worst performing apps during the app review process.

 

[Entropy]

You would think strategically, they would optimize apps. over the browser, as apps. are their advantage over Android.

Not only that, diverting usage from browser to apps. denies mobile search revenues to Google.

You're thinking like Ballmer, not Jobs.
Seriously, some of what Jobs wrote on Flash is relevant here, and silent_guy has the right of it. The best strategy is to optimize for the best user experience all around, and a good browser is instrumental for that. Apple knows this, they are not relying on anyone else for that functionality. They also know how much people use the browser, and how that affects the memory usage and responsiveness of the whole device. Thus limitations, for the good of the whole. It makes sense and it works.

 

[french toast]

You can make a damn good argument for a number of other phones that perform better in various tests, but perhaps not GLBenchmark.

Really? Nexus prime? GS2? Galaxy note?..even if you flashed them with ICS i doubt they would beat the 4S by much, it is at least up to date in every aspect, and the software is properly optimised for it.

Apple could easilly afford to just up clocks and still have a competitve product as IOS doesn't need massive clock speeds like android.

 

[benjiro]

Looks like Quad core rumor again:

http://www.imore.com/2012/02/13/ipad-3-announcement-march-7-quadcore-4g-lte/

Its getting rather persistent, with only one counter rumor that its a dual core. And up to now, nothing has show any evidence of a dual core, while the quad core "rumors", had the boot information, and changes last year to the Os.

Looks like the release date is more or less confirmed, with multiple "sources" stating March 7.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/13/ipad-3-event-pegged-for-march-7/

 

[RudeCurve]

What about the GPU? Will it stay with SGX543MP2 or also move up to SGX543MP4? Would be sweet if both CPU and GPU were quad core as we'd get some awesome looking PS Vita level graphics on a new Retina display.

 

[dagamer]

What about the GPU? Will it stay with SGX543MP2 or also move up to SGX543MP4? Would be sweet if both CPU and GPU were quad core as we'd get some awesome looking PS Vita level graphics on a new Retina display.

Doubtful. You have to deal with the OS and it's API layers which can be bypassed on the Vita, plus, out of the thousands of games for iOS, I feel only two companies, chair (Infinity Blade series) and Firemint (Real Racing) actually try to take full advantage of the GPU. Most developers instead target the Angry Birds crowd since it's a lot easier to make money on cheaper 2D games than 3D ones.

 

[benjiro]

Doubtful. You have to deal with the OS and it's API layers which can be bypassed on the Vita, plus, out of the thousands of games for iOS,

There is one problem with that. It does in general not apply for the first generation games. The reason why Consoles ( fixed or handheld ), can last "longer", is because over time, developers, learn the in-and-out of the consoles, and it allows them like you said, to bypass the API layer.

But! In general, the first generation of games, is mostly written on the API layer. That is also why you see a difference between first generation games, and later generation.

Technically, there is no reason for the iPad, assuming its running a Quad Core / SGX543MP4, to not come close to that type of first generation graphics.

Of course there are other factors also. Sony there Vita is running a special SGX543MP4+, with 128MB dedicated memory ( probably faster memory ).

On the other hand, do not forget, the Sony Vita is build on 40nm process.

If, and its speculation, if the A6 is build on 32 or 28nm, there is a change that the CPU/GPU can be higher clocked then the default of the Vita. This can offset some of the disadvantage running on the API layer.

Think nobody even knows what the Vita is running at right now. And technically, it only uses 3 cores for its games. The 4th core is reserved for the OS.

I feel only two companies, chair (Infinity Blade series) and Firemint (Real Racing) actually try to take full advantage of the GPU. Most developers instead target the Angry Birds crowd since it's a lot easier to make money on cheaper 2D games than 3D ones.

Reason for that is simply put: Lack of game development support, and lack of controls. Especially that last part really hurts any tablet in regards to turning into a "Gaming Console Tablet".

One thing i have been wondering about is, that in reality there is nothing stopping a game developer from going beyond the API layer, as all the iPad's are based on the same architecture ( A4, A5, A6, they are all ARM based, with the same GPU design each time ). Just Apple being troublesome

We shall see. Think to be honest, that if Apple had some physical control's, and game developers support, that a LOT of game development companies ( the big one's ) will jump on the iPad as a gaming device.

 

[ltcommander.data]

Doubtful. You have to deal with the OS and it's API layers which can be bypassed on the Vita, plus, out of the thousands of games for iOS, I feel only two companies, chair (Infinity Blade series) and Firemint (Real Racing) actually try to take full advantage of the GPU. Most developers instead target the Angry Birds crowd since it's a lot easier to make money on cheaper 2D games than 3D ones.

Dead Space by Iron Monkey Studios for EA was also noteworthy, combining great graphics and sound to achieve the right ambiance. Iron Monkey Studios is now working on Mass Effect Infiltrator which is also looking pretty good. I presume they switched to UE3 to maximize Mass Effect asset reuse rather than evolve the previous Dead Space iOS engine.

Is it a stretch to think that Mass Effect Infiltrator looks almost as good as the original Mass Effect? I suppose it's still lacking in the shadow department, but polygon count, texture quality, and lighting are strong.

I wonder what are the chances Apple gave Iron Monkey Studios/EA iPad 3 dev systems? EA said Infiltrator is shipping "soon" and given the tie-in, it's reasonable to assume Infiltrator will ship alongside ME3, which is conveniently right around when the iPad 3 launch event is expected. Mass Effect Infiltrator would seem like a pretty good demo for the event. If that is the case, the question would then be whether these screenshots are from the Apple A5 or Apple A6.