Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by Arun, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. wco81

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    Yeah if there's an offline or untethered mode, they really didn't show too much.

    Heard that it may function as MP3 player by itself.

    The fitness tracking shouldn't require tethering, unless it requires GPS from the iPhone.

    But no built-in GPS means if you lose it, you can't use Find My iPhone on it.
     
  2. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    You seem to have missed all the talk in the presentation that was about the timekeeping aspects of the thing. It was not something they just glossed over.

    TBH, that criticism sounds a lot like what people said about the iphone originally. Why would I want to type or surf on a tiny screen and so on, and yet here we are, today... :)

    The thing with the watch is that you use it for the kind of interactions where you don't NEED to reach for your phone. The watch you have right on your arm. It's there already. Checking out notifications, your next calendar appointment(s), the weather, read a message or email you were sent and so on. With handoff and iOS8, you finish replying to the email with your phone if you don't want to dictate a response. They did focus a lot on how to efficiently interact with the thing without having to paw clumsily at a tiny screen, with the extended siri functionality and so on.

    Also, you don't HAVE to have a phone with you all the time. It can function indipendently, you just lose the internet connectivity aspects of the thing (it probably only has NFC/bluetooth, no wifi). You can use it as a timer, alarm, fitness device or music player...or you know, a WATCH ;), without a phone. It will probably keep track of your calendar events too without your phone and remind you, although obviously it can't update changes. They mentioned this right in the presentation.

    The watch is a companion device to your piephone, naturally. Apple wants to leverage (IE, lock you into) their ecosystem. That's why we have an app store to begin with, for example. (It's incidentally also why itunes hasn't been available for android...) You get a piephone, you get (possibly spend money to buy) apps or music for it. You get reluctant to change to a different brand, because you'd lose access to the stuff you already got.

    The watch uses the persistent connectivity of your phone, because sticking a cellular transciever in the watch itself, in a device that small, would be infeasible today. Also maybe not even possible, with the largely metal casing. Which begs the question how good BT reception will be between devices through a thick lump of metal (and a human body)... Android wear devices all reportedly suffer disconnections, you don't want to see that with your $350+ piewatch; people would go nuts, heh. So, will I have to move my phone to my left pocket now (where I keep my keys, where the phone would get scratched to hell), or will it still work in my right pocket? :razz:
     
    #2682 Grall, Sep 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2014
  3. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    That's somewhat of an issue, yes. Especially if you buy the solid gold version (ick).

    You know, people are totally gonna get super robbed when they wear these things in public.
     
  4. wco81

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    That's too bad because with iOS 7, if the screen is locked, there is no way to use that device, like restore to factory install, unless the correct AppleID is authenticated on the device.

    Supposedly this has led to fewer iPhone thefts in the past year.

    So a similar locking scheme and the ability to control it in Lost mode through Find My iPhone would give people some peace of mind about losing a $350+ watch.
     
  5. tangey

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    Well, the apple watch looks to me far away the best thought out and designed smartwatch....by a country mile. It makes those launched thus far look pretty amateur. And of course trust apple to come up with a range of straps to provide opportunities for multiple sales, and indeed to have halo aspirational models.

    I think the haptic thing will now be copied by everyone, as will the crown (patents permitting).

    Whether I need/want one, I'm still unsure til I see one in the flesh.

    Do we need a watch thread ?
     
  6. wco81

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    Comparatively speaking, the silicon in any of these watches can't be interesting.

    Do they even do 3D?
     
  7. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    You totally don't need a watch thread unless you want to see me spooging all over it... /facepalm

    I'm so hyped by that thing, it's really built with the precision of a luxury watch. The way the armbands detach without tools, the seamless curves of the case...

    Wonder what the resolution of the screen is, and if it's the same rez of both sizes of watch (probably not). The DPI looks really high from the (simulated) shots of the device in apple's videos, and I don't think they'd lie here. They're generally above that sort of thing. If they have a super sharp display (say 300DPI, possibly more) they want to show that off.

    Wco:
    Apple's Maps app is vector-based, without a doubt so are all of the analog watch faces as well, so yes, it absolutely does 3D. The entire interface is likely rasterized polygons just like with iOS (and windows, OSX these days.)
     
  8. wco81

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    Hmm good point. Now will they allow a Google Maps app on the thing?
     
  9. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    I don't see why not. You get ads with the google app these days tho, or so I hear, but if that's what you desire, then by all means knock yourself out. :)
     
  10. zed

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    yeah I'll be spooging as well, we're gonna have to stick this in the NSFW board
    let me now declare the iWatch is unsurpased in beauty we might as well end this century now, we have reached an apex of beauty its all downhill now
     
  11. dZeus

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    Actually I fully stand by what I said back then. Anything over the physical size of an iPhone 4 is terribly unpractical to use as a phone. However, the trend seems to be to use bigger screens (large phones and phablets are popular with the 50+ age groups and with people using their phone to browse the web and read sites that are completely unoptimized for a mobile experience, like this very forum). Mind you that reducing bezel size could provide you with larger screens using the same physical dimensions of an iPhone 4; no need to turn your phone into an agenda-sized accessory.

    Just because the majority wants it doesn't mean it's a good idea.. e.g. the majority of people don't seem to have a problem with daily battery recharges of their cellphone, which doesn't make it any less terrible thing!

    Apple's watch took me by surprise... with the past rumours on their focus on medical usage, I was actually expecting more of a 'fitness'-type device having sensors for measuring a plethora of bodily functions. Instead they release a me-too smartwatch targeting the same braindead target market as the other manufacturers.
    As others said, watches are a dead-end product category, only worn by people showcasing their wealth or 'good taste' (i.e. a fashion item). Smartwatches are not a fashion item, in fact, rather the opposite. A long time ago back when I was in school, the ubiquitous Casio digital watch were very much frowned up by the 'cool gang' of students. It'd be surprising if smart watches don't suffer the same fate in that age demographic.
     
  12. Xmas

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    And still they were ubiquitous.
    I think you are underestimating the utility of a watch.
     
  13. Grall

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    Why, because you say so? You may not look cool holding a giant phone up to your face and speak into it, but to go as far as call them "terribly unpractical", really? Plug in a headset and stick the phone in your pocket, how is it terribly unpractical now, prithee?

    You make it sound like larger phones are only attractive to stupid people, or perhaps, that people using large phones are stupid (I'm not sure which, really), larger phones are leading in sales these days from what I understand and that's why Apple's moving in that direction. Note that they did not update the hardware for the 4" version of iP. It's still the same now roughly year old gear, now being sold for yet another year. After seven successive iterations all having basically the same unchanged form factor, that kind of speaks volumes, wouldn't you say?

    There's probably been as many rumors stating the watch is intended to be a fashion timepiece type device, and with Ives leading the design team, what else would one expect? All Apple products are fashion statements these days, from computers to headphones. The fashion angle has always struck me as the more realistic rumor; the blood pressure, blood sugar, hydration level and so on sensor rumors that have been echoing wildly across the internet just never made sense to me. How exactly would you fit all of that shit into a watch to begin with, at a realistic price, and make the device small and reliable without getting sued for malpractice because some diabetic somewhere went into shock because his watch didn't warn him about his blood sugar?

    You're calling the friggin iwatch a me-too device? It's the other fucking way around pal. Apple's been working on this thing for years now. Other makers have been scrambling in a terrified panic to get their shit out on the market ahead of Apple; just look at how terrible it's all been. The best, most useable smartwatch right now is the Pebble for chrissakes and it was put together with the help of a Kickstarter project... :roll: That's how amateurish all the other manufacturers' watches are.

    Yeah, they've said, and they're talking shite. Lots of people still wear watches, and just because a person don't wear a watch NOW doesn't mean they wouldn't consider wearing an iwatch, if it fits whatever arbitrary criteria they may desire. I don't wear a watch right now and I can't wait to strap one of these babies onto my wrist. Every other watch I've looked at sucks in comparison. I would have bought a Pebble when the metal and glass version launched last year, except I'm not made of money unfortunately. :(

    Now you're sounding like those wan-... Ignorant fools who were slagging off smartphones as a whole, calling them toys for geeks and whatnot, before the iphone launched and fundamentally changed everything about phones, from function to appearance.

    Maybe the iwatch doesn't change a damn thing. I don't know. But it's not even out yet, so you can't make that kind of determination; you're just guessing.

    I remember those casio watches, and they were utter crap to be honest. They're the very height of nostalgia-fueled desireability today though. Probably including many of the people who scorned them back then.

    I don't think a 2015 metal and crystal/glass/ceramic iwatch has anything to fear from a 1980s, early 90s resin casio watch with a bazillion of tiny little silicone rubber buttons that were so small you almost needed an implement to press them...
     
  14. dZeus

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    So you're saying that adding a headset with a wire really makes it more practical? At least if you'd said a bluetooth headset, I could see some utility when using it as a portable phone.. (although having to recharge and carry around two devices instead of one smaller one hardly makes it more practical).

    Ehm.. where did I say stupid people? Or is that just a projection of your own opinion?
    Apple changed the formfactor because of the changing market demands. I'm saying that some of these demands are by people who cannot read small screens (mostly in the 50+ age groups), and others who mainly do webbrowsing on websites that are poorly optimized for a mobile browsing experience (such as this forum). That doesn't make large phones more practical for other use cases imo.

    I was hoping for the medical category because I think it makes a lot more sense for a wrist-sized device, as you would possibly not need much power-consuming hardware such as a screen and can do with a cpu with lower power consumption. On top of that, it would address a huge target market as opposed to the small market for smart watches (yes, of course this is my own opinion and a prediction at this point, duh).

    it's me-too because the others were earlier and I frankly don't see any revolutionary thing that isn't done in the other smartwatches on the market. With the iPhone, Apple was basically the first pushing a touch-screen only device with a complete app store and development ecosystem around it (safe for some earlier half-baked attempts at these things). Tell me what it is about iWatch that is substantially different from the other devices on the market?

    Most young people I know are not wearing a watch and are absolutely not considering starting to wear one again. I doubt a smartwatch would change that trend. We'll see...

    Don't put words in my mouth that I never used. Thank you.

    Of course it's my opinion and based on intuition/guessing! I would be quoting hard figures or reports if it wasn't. I suppose I could be clearer in my style of communication about that?

    It'll be an interesting market to observe in the next few years. One of my co-workers is as convinced as you are by the future success of smartwatches. I'm firmly in the camp of considering smartwatches 'devices-trying-to-address-a-nonexistant-need'. We'll see what happens!
     
  15. RudeCurve

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    LOL...funny..:lol:

    Anyway...back in the day those Casio watches were cool for the nerdy crowd. For the cool crowd it was those colorful Swatch models.:wink:

    As for the IP6...hmmm...it looks ugly...looks like the the original IP but thinner. This is going to be a hard decision for me personally. On one hand I like the new hardware but on the other I don't like the design. I much prefer the design of the 5S. Also the new IP can do 240 fps video recording which will come in handy for some of the actions stuff I like to record. The $300 IP6 comes with 64GB instead of 32GB like prior models. The 5S will be discounted so again a difficult decision.
     
  16. Grall

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    No, I'm asking YOU. Anyway, what's so terrible unpractical about holding a 4.7" up to your face, or even a 5.5"? It's a phone. You hold it in your hand like any other phone. It's not a cinderblock.

    And then to go on complaining about a headset wire, what the hell? #1, First-world problem much, and #2, a headset wire is a heck of a lot smaller/thinner/lighter than either a 5.5, 4.7 or even 4, 3.5 etc smartphone wouldn't you say? So hence it must be more practical in your book, yes? You don't even need to hold either the headset or the phone in your hands, they are free to do other stuff. So more practical by pretty much every metric. Unless you're gonna do the whole moving-goalposts schtick again and complain about something else, unrelated to the initial complaint...? :)

    Uh, you're holding up BT headsets as a preferable alternative to wired headsets, after your dubious complaint about large phones? BT headsets are bigger, heavier, you (genuinely!) look silly wearing them, they generally don't play music well, especially the monaural versions, they need to be recharged regularly, they can be fiddly to pair and sometimes lose their connection, being cordless thus easily misplaced/lost, and they're much more expensive than a much higher performing wired headset (which the iP includes a fairly decent set of as standard btw.) Them being more expensive sucks especially hard when you misplace your easily misplaced silly-looking BT headset, by the way... ;)

    I thought it was an obvious inferrence from when you said large phones are terribly unpractical, used by (older!) people to browse sites that are non-mobile optimized. However if you say that was not your intent I'll believe you. Do note though that most people buying these large phones aren't 50+ users, or those wanting to browse crappy websites, but rather just anyone in general who want a phone, down to young teens/tweens or whatever they're called these days. :razz:

    You still haven't explained why they're so unpractical to begin with, it would help me see your POV if you could expand on this a bit.

    Except that's not what Apple is about. They make things with screens (well, except for the mac mini and apple tv of course *ahem*, either of which hasn't been updated in like three years by now), things that run apps. Hard to have apps on a bracelet that doesn't have a screen.

    However, we "know" (or well, apple rumor sites have claimed) that the company's hired people with medical sensor expertise, so we might see blood oximeter, sugar level detector etc in a next generation iwatch. It was obviously deemed unpractical or even impossible to include more than a pulse sensor and the ubiqutous MEMS gyro and accelerometer devices in this model. It does seem very tightly packed with bits even as it is, and power consumption would have been affected too by a bigger sensor suite.

    Not sure what huge market would desire a screen-less medical bracelet rather than a fashion timepiece that can also run apps and display arbitrary information, as well as provide some basic physical fitness data. Fitbits and fuel bands and whatever they're called, they're pretty niche stuff. A more advanced version of these, I dunno, but I think they'd still be niche stuff. A fashion item would automatically reach out towards a larger market share, or that's how I see it anyway...

    It's no different really than when the iphone was introduced. There were plenty other smartphones already (more than there are smart watches). They all did the same stuff on a basic level, but iphone was the first to take a cohesive fresh look at how to accomplish traditional computer tasks on a device which lacked traditional input means. Other phones went the way of physical buttons, or styluses. They replicated traditional GUI elements seen in desktop OSes, which of course were fiddly to manipulate on a touch device. They had a web browser, but it was terrible, and so on. All of that changed with iphone, not necessarily because apple innovated all of it, but they were certainly a catalyst at the very least.

    Young people are sensitive to what's hot. If iwatch catches on, it might change peoples' opinions. Also, overall trends and fashion change, and high-end timepieces still have an unthreatened place in certain market segments. That's where Apple's aiming at with the steel and gold versions of the watch.

    Overall though, price is a factor of course. The iwatch is NOT cheap even in the basic version, and I'm sure the higher tiers are going to cost a lot more. Steel and sapphire, probably another $150 I'm guessing, and for gold, well the sky's the limit... 900-1000+? Would depend on the weight of the casing largely; more gold is more money of course. And unlike phones, you don't have a carrier subsidizing the initial purchase, you have to fork out everything yourself in one go. ...Well, unless you charge it on your credit card and put yourself (deeper) in consumer debt of course, heh. You could even help bankrupt yourself using Apple Pay to ring up your purchase if you buy a new iP6 first! :lol: I'm sure Tim Cook would be thrilled with that.

    Sorry, sorry! Didn't mean to offend you, just meant to say I recognized the line of reasoning. Sometimes something comes along and changes things around. Apple likes to think the Mac was one of those, the iphone certainly was. iWatch might not be, but it could be, and Apple's certainly put an AWFUL lot of thought and work into this device, and they're probably gonna hype and market this thing just as hard to push it into being one of those breakthrough gadgets.

    I dunno if it will be a success. It will probably be at least a simmering pot kind of thing where smart watches continue to exist - for a number of years anyway - alongside our other gadgets. I certainly look forward to having a smart watch of my own, because I hate not having a watch to wear, and Casio G-Shock watches which I've traditionally worn aren't fun and cool anymore like they used to be, and there are no other makers of digital watches around anymore either. Or not at least where I live.
     
  17. silent_guy

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    I'm on my iPhone 5 on a 2 year plan, so it'd be stupid not to upgrade. I want the finger print reader most of all: it was hard not to buy the 5s just for that, but I survived. The rest is gradual improvement: we're ready on the flatter part of the innovation curve (famous last words that I hope will come back to haunt me one day.)

    I'm frankly more excited by some iOS 8 features, especially the grouping of multiple Apple IDs for families.

    Looks like they made NFC payments as user friendly as it can possibly be, neat, but does it really matter? (Anybody here with Android who actually switched to NFC payments?)

    I ready thought the iPhone 5 a bit uncomfortable for one-handed use, especially the ubiquitous top left 'back' button, the 4.7 screen will make that worse. UI designers will hopefully work around that and move further towards interfaces based on sliding instead of pressing buttons. We'll see. Have to move with the times, I guess. At least the power button has moved to the right: keeping that on top for the iPhone 5 was one stupid mistake.

    Too bad the 4.7 doesn't have optical IS. That'd be really cool.

    Still think the iPhone 4 was the biggest step forward in phones (well, after the first iPhone of course.)

    Not sure yet about the watch. The UI was cool, but too many unknowns: battery life, reliability of HR monitor, reliability of the link with the phone etc.
     
  18. Rurouni

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    Using a larger screen for browsing, even for mobile optimized website, is a lot more fun. I don't have to zoom in as often, typing is nicer, having more information at once is nice. If a phone coming, I just put my phone on my ear... yes, as simple as that. It used to look silly, but not anymore since practically all high end phone is big. In this time where media content is very accessible, watching YouTube on the go, or even on my bed before sleeping is a bless using bigger screen. The experience is much much better.
    And it isn't just for fun stuff. Productivity also increases with bigger screen. I can read docs (pdf) more easily. Mail apps can display more incoming mail, thus faster to find important mail. Again, typing is better which is an automatic productivity improvement.

    Of course the downside is that it's much harder to use one handed, harder to carry around. But I get used to it.
    Basically my limit is as long as it fits on my pants pocket.
     
  19. ToTTenTranz

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    It could only be a MP3 player by itself if it had some kind of powered analog out, which it doesn't.
    And it wouldn't make much sense anyways. The thing will be struggling for every bit of its anemic battery. Spending watts in sound reproduction wouldn't make much sense.


    That's a conspiracy theory as good as any other.
    "Everyone is making a smartwatch, probably because they're copying something that apple hasn't launched but will launch eventually".

    Apple can claim all they want that they've been "working on this for 3 years" or a decade or they invented watches or they invented time itself, etc. etc. It doesn't mean it's true.

    Pebble used the concept presented by Microsoft's SPOT from 2004 and made it usable.
    From there, many companies saw the potential in there and launched mee-too-devices, Apple included.

    Besides, Wearables and The Internet of Things are the hot topics in any IT-related conference nowadays. We've been putting sensors and displays in wrist watches for decades now. It's not exactly a brilliant and original idea to make a watch that connects to a smartphone.


    But, but... you'll lose your common sense!

     
  20. Entropy

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    Bluetooth.
     
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